How long does learning Russian take?

I recently started studying Russian (about 3 months). I've been using the Pimsleur Speak and Read Russian during my commute to and from work, and I think it is a great program. The only bad thing is the price, but fortunately I was able to get it from my local library, so I didn't have to pay for it.
Has anyone else used the pimsleur audio courses? How did you like them?

I have also been studying the penguin Russian course and have found that book to be very good.
So far the combination of the audio (pimsleur) and the text (penguin) have been working out pretty good for me. I have been able to stay motivated longer than previous attempts to a foreign language. But I guess only time will tell if I can actually learn the language.

How long does it typically take to learn Russian?

I've been using Pimsleur too for the last 3 months, and I'm 5 lessons away from the end (tried to do one lesson a day). Listening to TV/radio/movies/people talking I constantly pick up words that I know, but in the end I never really understand anything, except for some simple sentences now and then. But at least it gives you a feel for the language, and the parts that I don't understand I can mostly parse into distinct words, so it's a start. Plus you learn the most common declensions/conjugations so when you study the grammar it seems less overwhelming. And of course it's great for learning pronunciation. So I think it's definitely a great way to start because it's so easy and gives you a good basis, but it's only a start.

Don't ask me.:) :D

(God, doesn't everyone just hate me on this board? :lol: )

I liked the Pimsleur tapes when I first took an interest in Russian Language. They were fun to listen to and helped with pronunciation. But they have no written dialogue to use with the tapes and so you can't see the words you are saying. This became a problem later on when I started taking Russian classes. I could say lots of phrases and simple sentences but I got confused when it came to writing these on paper and could not translate them correctly. It also caused confusion with cases and verb conjugation. I think it is better to get a grammer text that has a companion CD and a workbook. My school uses Golosa and it is fairly simple and straight forward.

Yes, Jasper, I'd say you've gotten quite enough compliments by now, yes? :wink:

As for how long it takes, it really depends on the person. Noone learns how to do different things in the exact same time. If you went to school then you probably remember the kids who instantly understood something and the kids who didn't understand it after it was explained the umpteenth time. Languages are the same way. Some people just absorb all the rules and vocabulary quickly and with others it's like talking to a brick wall. In addition to that it's much easier to learn a foreign language if you've already learned one before. It took me 4 years to get where I'm at in Russian, but now I've been learning Arabic for about a month and I can speak Arabic now as well as I could after learning Russian about a year.

Besides that you haven't told us what proficiency level you're aiming at with "know Russian." You could say some person who learns maybe 10 words in Russian knows some Russian. Someone who can speak fairly well but can't read at all knows Russian. Beginner, intermediate, and advanced students know Russian, and they all took different times to get to where they're at. If you mean how long will it take you to get all the main grammar rules down and have a decent working vocabulary, then anywhere from 2-4 years(if you're an average language learner) if you have a class and maybe a year longer if you're learning by yourself. It is quite possible to learn all the grammar rules of Russian and a similar sized vocabulary in only a couple months. That is, if you drill every day. But most "casual self-taught language learners" I've run into are the kind that might pop a tape into their car once a week or something and forget about it. Not to say you're like that, of course, but what I mean is not everyone is really serious about learning languages.

How ever long learn Russian, the real progress comes with actually using your Russian. I don't mean just saying a few words to a Russian speaker, but really having to rely on it for getting by. You learn quite fast, if the need is big enough :lol:

Okay. I've never heard about Pimsleur before. As you know, ya izucayu Russki yazik samastayacelna. No Russian schools here. No one can speak Russian but me at my school. No one could read my diary because I write it in Russian. And I would never make any Russian conversations with anyone because I've never met anyone who can speak Russian as well. See? I'm forced to think that I AM alone in this world. I'm afraid that it will take a long time to managing this language. I have learnt Russian for 3 months and I just get a little. How did it come? I just learn from internet and books. Is that enough? How long would I be a native-speaker? Does anyone know what should I do besides being active in this only-site-I-know which discussing about Russian?
(I'm sorry... I'm a little bit depressed...)

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Originally Posted by vremita_desectia

Okay. I've never heard about Pimsleur before. As you know, ya izucayu Russki yazik samastayacelna. No Russian schools here. No one can speak Russian but me at my school. No one could read my diary because I write it in Russian. And I would never make any Russian conversations with anyone because I've never met anyone who can speak Russian as well. See? I'm forced to think that I AM alone in this world. I'm afraid that it will take a long time to managing this language. I have learnt Russian for 3 months and I just get a little. How did it come? I just learn from internet and books. Is that enough? How long would I be a native-speaker? Does anyone know what should I do besides being active in this only-site-I-know which discussing about Russian?
(I'm sorry... I'm a little bit depressed...)

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Pimsleur is a set of 90 audio lessons, 30 minutes each. It's almost like having a conversation with a tutor, they ask you questions and you answer. I think it's great for learning how to speak/pronounce and just generally gain confidence in using the language, and for someone living in a non-Russian speaking country those are the hardest things to get practice with.

For listening practice I use http://russianinternet.com/radio/ , mostly the first one Russkoe Radio since 90% of them don't even work, and for TV there's http://russianinternet.com/video/ , RTR Planeta is the best I've found, 24/7 live broadcasts and the quality (visually) is surprisingly good. I recommend going to their homepage http://www.rtr-planeta.ru/ and getting the feed from there though.

I'll send you a message about Pimsleur so if you're interested in trying it out let me know.

Thanks a lot! :)

I discourage the use of Pimsleur. Pimsleur's entire method is based on infants learning languages by having them spoken to them. The problem is, infants don't have anything in their heads before that. If you're already established in a language it's going to be extremely hard to learn this way, unless the language is very similar to your own - in German we were taught this way, but much of the instructor's teaching was based on the fact that you can guess a good amount of basic German words anyway since they sound so much like English ones. Try that with Arabic. I might also add that the instructor was up there with little picture cards and making gestures and so on - the visual component to this kind of learning that is so important. If a mother pushes a ball into a child's face and repeatedly says "ball, ball, ball" over time the child will associate this sound with what he sees(a bright-colored round object) and soon enough it will be running around screaming "ball, ball" if it sees a ball. But as far as I know, Pimsleur is just several tapes/CDs filled with a bunch of foreign talk ranging from extremely basic to basic.

You will also not have any idea of grammar(since people who have learned a language from birth do not understand their own language's grammar). As well I've heard they don't even teach you to read the cyrllic alphabet. The people on this board that have been asking questions about Pimsleur usually post ridiculously transliterated phrases as "Kawtoree see-chess chess" or something of that sort. This makes me think that Pimsleur comes with some sort of book full of this kind of stuff.

Pimsleur is also a bit expensive. I would say it's more of a talking phrasebook with silly transliterations than anything else. I would more highly recommend a book that teaches you proper grammar and drills you well that has some sort of audio complement.

Esattamente, Pravito.
:lol: What about the guy who typed 'hightillaneebue voo stoneybutt pie-yeast?'? :D
And thanks for explaining why pimsleur doesn't work. I always knew instinctively that it couldn't work of course, but now you've put it into words.

I have listened to the first set of the Pimsleur. It was only four tapes obliviously a marketing ploy to encourage the purchase of their more expensive set. From these four tapes I did find them helpful with how they broke down words. I think the words used allowed me to listen to every letter in the alphabet, however, after that I did not really see any reason to purchase their 300-dollar set or whatever it costs. I have found (and I am still very new!) that there is only so much you can listen to before it is time to get a book and really learn the language. I had a feeling it was going to be more of the same and at that point I wouldn’t really learn anything about the language, just memorize sayings (might as well listen to a Russian radio station). I do realize that I have come to my opinion completely anecdotally, but it made sense to me, in not purchasing their expensive set. You can get a lot of books for 300-dollars…

As said above, it depends on the person and how they advance in their studies, but by general scientific standards on average it takes between 5 and 6 years to actually become a fluent speaker of a language. It comes with a few requirements, such as using the language daily, but otherwise it just depends on how your brain works when it comes to learning a language.

I think Pimsleur's tapes are great! I used them when studying Italian, and they helped my confidence in speaking and it gave me PERFECT pronunciation of words. Of course it won't get you to fluency, but it's a good start.

I just started using the New Penguin Russian Course Book, and I plan on combining it with Pimsleur. 5-6 years to fluency? No way! :lol: I'm planning on being functionally fluent in 1 year. That's with the advantage of 3 months of private language instruction as well. Wish me luck! Russian is definately a challenge.

You can't be functionally fluent in one year. Sorry to burst the bubble, but you can't. To be fluent in any language you'd need to know, what, 10,000+ words? So you'd have to learn 10,000/365= at least 27 words a day. And grammar, and a lot of idiom, and then you'd have to train yourself to stop thinking in your own language, and get a lot of practice.
Pravit is one of the most succesful Russian learners on this board who's been studying on and off for 4 years now. He isn't fluent. He's good, but he isn't fluent. Even my Russian teacher, who's studied Russian at a prestigious university for 7 years, who's been to Russia for months at a time and for numerous times in those 7 years, and who's got a Russian girlfriend, says he isn't fluent. He's very good, but not fluent.

Sorry to break the news, but you can only reach any level of fluency by surrounding yourself with people who only speak the language you want to learn.

Well, I won't argue with anyone here, but I know of several people who have learned languages in a year's time. If you feel it would take you seven years or more to learn a single language, why would you bother? That is a really long time.

I think this depends on what you consider fluency. Sure grammar and being able to read the language is important, but to me SPEAKING is by far the most important. And a vocabulary of 10,000+ words is not really necessary to speak in everyday parlance. If that is the standard of fluency then this would certainly not be possible in one year. Agreed. But I would think that I could carry on a conversation on a variety of topics after that period of time.

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Well, I won't argue with anyone here, but I know of several people who have learned languages in a year's time. If you feel it would take you seven years or more to learn a single language, why would you bother? That is a really long time.

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Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. If something's difficult and takes a long time, it's obviously not worth bothering with. That's why none of mankind's greatest achievements have ever been more than a year in the gestation. Oh yes.

Idiot.

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I think this depends on what you consider fluency.

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Of course. A cruel person, for example, might infer from your failure to spell 'definitely' correctly that you are not yet fluent in English.

Learning a language is a lifelong commitment. My mother, by all measures a 'fluent' English speaker, says that she learns something new in the language every day - be it idiomatic or anachronistic. This after forty years.

This is interesting... what is FLUENT ? what defines it ? If it means knowing everyword in the language ? well that's jsut impossible. If it means being able to understand all the words that are spoken, that's nearly impossible also. I'm a very good speaker of english (sometimes my lazy typing skillz might not boast that fact, but i really am =P) and i will find words i don't know yet all the time. If an everage 20 year old native speaker in english took an advanced college course in english, im sure they would find all sorts of new words they had never even heard of.

So you can't expect to do the same in a foriegn language. The best you can do is just memorize as many words as you can (after you have a good grasp on grammar of course). Think of it as a game. The more words you know, the less ability russians have to choose words you don't know and confuse you =P. after you learn enough words, you'll understand what they are saying.

Besides russian has more words for everyday use than english does. So, right there is a challenge.
yep...

If I am an idiot, that still makes me better than you, because you are an arrogant asshole JOYSOF. Ooh...I bet you are so proud of yourself for finding a single misspelled word in my previous post. I don't spend a lot of time re-reading posts on an internet message board, and sometimes I type quickly and make simple mistakes. Sue me. Do me a favor and take a flying leap off the top of the Kremlin. Jerk. :evil: :evil:

OF COURSE there is always more one can learn when it comes to anything. I am not aspiring to pass myself off as a native of the Russian language, but if I did that would certainly take many years. Again, I am speaking of functional fluency as defined by ME. If my desire is to become a professor of Russian studies, I could see your point.

I wish you the best in your forty year attempt to master another language. By then, I'll be on my fifth. :wink:

Signed,
*One who doesn't take kindly to insults*

wtf joysof... did a russian goth make fun of your pinstripe shirt today or what ? Maybe russian isn't as important to some people as it is to others... if he doesn't want to waste 7 years on russian. then get mad at him and call him an idiot. i wouldn't mind spending 7 years on russian, but to someone else, they might not care. so back off чмо !

Fluency - the quality of being facile in speech and writing

Guess you do need to be able to spell, eh? I thought that the spelling thing was part of literacy, but if it says that's the definition of fluency, I'll believe it.

By the way, I haven't met anyone who has become fluent in a language in a singal year, even people completely immersed in the language they are learning, so I can see where joysof is coming from, because unless you hang out with lingual geniuses, JKDMan, I don't think you know anyone who learned a language in a single year.

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If I am an idiot, that still makes me better than you, because you are an arrogant asshole JOYSOF.

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Saying you are better than someone else automatically makes you not better than them, heh.

Let's just focus on learning the language now, instead of flaming each other. It's much more pleasant, and productive.

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unless you hang out with lingual geniuses, JKDMan, I don't think you know anyone who learned a language in a single year.

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The fact that you have never met such individuals does not mean they do not exist. Perhaps you should get out more. :wink: I am joking with you, but trust me they are out there. Maybe I should not use the term fluency, as it may not meet your "textbook definition". Even though most people would say they are fluent, I henceforth will no longer use that term to describe individuals I know who can carry serious conversations with native speakers after several months of language immersion.

I do believe Russian is a fabulous language worthy of years of study. I want to make that clear, and I can't knock anybody who dedicates themselves to perfection when it comes to their language pursuits. I just have certain goals for myself when it comes to languages. That's just me. I do see myself continuing to try and improve my Russian after one year's time, but it will probably not comprise the bulk of my study time after that point.

I don't like to trade insults (or flames, as you call it), as it is not my nature. But if somebody takes what I see as a cheap shot at me for no real reason, I will hit back. God gave me a rather unfortunate temper. :roll:

OK, end of rant. It will suit everyone here if this board went back to a friendly discussion of the Russian language. I can certainly learn from many here. Carry on...

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if he doesn't want to waste 7 years on russian. then get mad at him and call him an idiot.

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Whether or not he wants to 'waste' his time on this or that language is up to him. What I objected was the attitude put across in his post that difficult, time-consuming things are not really worth bothering with.

That said, there was no need for the ad hominem. Apologies.

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did a russian goth make fun of your pinstripe shirt today or what ?

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How did you know about my pinstripe shirts?

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I wish you the best in your forty year attempt to master another language. By then, I'll be on my fifth.

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And I'm sure you'll be able to order coffee and chat about the weather in all of them. Good luck to you. Personally, I don't think language-collecting is a particularly worthy thing: most people who claim, for example, to be 'fluent in five languages' actually have no knowledge of any of them - including their own - beyond the superficial. It's the intellectual equivalent of driving a cheap sports car. Or several cheap sports cars, come to that.

I agree with joysof. By the way, JKDMan have you ever thought of the fact that learning a language gets harder and harder when you're older? I don't know how old you are, but unless you're super-intelligent you can't 'master' any language above the age of ~35. You can try, and you can get very good, but you'll never be fluent and it'll take a whole lot longer than one year.
I speak as a -see sig- myself. I'm not saying I'm a genius, but I have learnt a lot in the past 8 months. But I'm not pretending I'm ever going to be fluent if I don't emigrate to Russia...

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Originally Posted by EffMah

Fluency - the quality of being facile in speech and writing

Guess you do need to be able to spell, eh? I thought that the spelling thing was part of literacy, but if it says that's the definition of fluency, I'll believe it.

By the way, I haven't met anyone who has become fluent in a language in a singal year, even people completely immersed in the language they are learning, so I can see where joysof is coming from, because unless you hang out with lingual geniuses, JKDMan, I don't think you know anyone who learned a language in a single year.

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This all rather amusing. I haven't been around lately, as I've been "rockin' up a storm" with my band(look out for our CD "Welcome to Aeroflot" sometime soon :wink:). But I could throw in a sarcastic comment or two.

BTW, Effmah, speaking of spelling, perhaps you mean you don't know of anyone who has become fluent in a single year. :wink:

I think Jasper described me very well. You could say I'm good for someone who's never attended a day of Russian classes, but I couldn't compare to someone who's been at it for 4 years in university. And they're probably not fluent either.

I wouldn't say that after 40 years speaking a language you're not fluent just because you discover new things about it. I can speak....er...passing English, but as Dogboy said I hear about new words and expressions every day. But I'm fluent in English, if I do say so myself. Heh. It's always funny when people say "if I do say so myself..."

But of course you can't get fluent after 1 year of self-study. The best of them(Jasper) after 1 year of self-study usually end up being able to read and write at an intermediate level(S-2+ to S-3 if you use that US government scale thingy), speak about a level or so below that, and their listening comprehension usually sucks. Badly. Unless they get to be immersed in the language. Of course, if that is enough for you, that is enough, especially if you never really plan on using it other than in tourist situations.

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I wouldn't say that after 40 years speaking a language you're not fluent just because you discover new things about it.

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Did I say that?

Well, mutual compliments aside, Pravit, I must tell you that I can understand more radio now than at the time I told you I sucked at listening.

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BTW, Effmah, speaking of spelling, perhaps you mean you don't know of anyone who has become fluent in a single year.

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Simple mistakes. I must have been thinking of "signal" at the time. I won't say what the signal was though...

And if you are going to correct me, I would like to point out that you need a question mark at the end of your sentence. :wink:

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Originally Posted by EffMah

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BTW, Effmah, speaking of spelling, perhaps you mean you don't know of anyone who has become fluent in a single year.

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Simple mistakes. I must have been thinking of "signal" at the time. I won't say what the signal was though...

And if you are going to correct me, I would like to point out that you need a question mark at the end of your sentence. :wink:

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ERRRT! Wrong again, Eff-sister! :wink: If I had the question mark, it would be more of a suggestive type thing. I used the period to make it a statement. Perhaps the "perhaps" threw you off, but just because that word is present doesn't mean you need a question mark.

Perhaps my mother will go to the mall today.
Perhaps EffMah spelled "single" incorrectly.

:lol:

Joysof: Whoops, remembered your post wrong.
Jasper: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm still better than you. :wink:

Beim Weg, it was a rhetoric question anyway, and those don't even need question marks.

ok...this is now a flame fest...i think it should be locked before someone pulls out a gun.

Eh, what's that? This "flame fest", which was a rather mild one, if at all, took place between people who generally like each other, and has been over for quite some time. Rest assured that anything which really needs locking will be locked quickly.

:? I've just started :oops:

Well, come this April I would have been learning for an entire year! Using just Pimsleur too. I do about 30 minutes a day, and tend to go through the same lesson about 5-6 times, Its taken me about a year to get to lesson 12 on the second course, how people have done through it all in 3 months and taken it all in? I have no idea. I can have conversations with Russian inside what the program teaches, I need to be corrected sometimes but overall I've been told I am doing well. Learning a language is a seriously long term thing. I expected it to take about 2-3 years before I could have a 5 minute conversation with someone. One thing that has really helped.. is that my girlfriend and her family is Russian, so I end up speaking more Russian than most people learning I guess.

That's the second biggest necromantic bump I've ever seen! No...no wait... that IS the biggest necromantic bump I've ever seen!

bump lol
bury again