Thread: English.... worst language.... ever!

Well, perhaps not a constructive post this but...

Read in a post regarding the ш щ controversy and sombody posted that it must be terrible to have English as your native langauge. Thinging about it i think its great. It means youve learnt one of the hardest languages in the world already when young (when the langauge center of your brain is still active) and it means when older there are only easier languages to learn (well, apart from latin which i understand to be an evil language, but hey, is not like people use latin much). Always makes me laugh the scene in Money Pythons Life of Brian where John Cleese plays the Roman centurion and is correcting Brian's Latin where he has been writing Romans go home.

Back towards my topic though and there are obviously advantages to learning say spanish as native tongue because then its easy to learn italian, or if you already have german then easy to learn dutch, russian then ukranian etc.... well, at least in my understanding.

English is really not a hard language. The spelling is absurd, but besides that and some strange idiomatic constructions as well as "verb + preposition" things like "take on, take out, take off" and so on, it's really not that difficult compared to other languages. Sorry I don't have a lot of time for a traditional detailed response, but I'm rather tired right now.

Yea, that's true pravit.

All when i was growing up everyone always told me that english is the hardest language to learn and man english is so hard and confusing... when in reality, it's not that bad.

I think i'd rather be russian learning english than english learning russian.

Besides, if someone in a non speaking english country wants to learn english, they start learning in like 1st grade... so they are just as fluent as any 15 year old ameriacn / britain by the time they are 15 (If you don't believe me talk to V !)

All the german foriegn exchange students said if someone wants, they can get good at english in about a year...

And also, like pravit said, the only thing that might be a bit stupid is the spelling, but, look at french, its spelling is pretty out of whack too, but it's probly not much harder (or easier) than english.

I think the only people english (Or any europians language would be hard for) is people from asain language decent. I couldn't imaging being chinsese, reading symbols, and having only one verb tense, and then all of a suddon have all these crazy letters making words and crazy crazy crap. And vise versa... i think asian languages (or perhaps arabic) are the hardest for people of europian language decent to learn.

Pravit, you forget about awfull English tense system.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

All the german foriegn exchange students said if someone wants, they can get good at english in about a year...

BTW, English is a language of the German language group. Don't you think that russans will be worse if they will try to study any slavic language? It is not so hard, just try to read any ukrainian, serbian, polish, bulgarian etc texts or sites, i guarantee you can understand up to 70% of them.

JJ, that may be true, but let's compare the conjugation of "to go" in English and Russian(we'll just use идти for it instead of one of the many other Russian verbs of motion )

to go
-------
I go
You go
He/she/it goes
You go
We go
They go

идти
------
Я иду
Ты идёшь
Он/она/оно идёт
Вы идёте
Мы идём
Они идут

Although Russian verb endings can be learned quickly enough, you've got to agree Russian has more irregular verbs than English does, where the rule is (almost) always "Same as infinitve for everything except 3rd person." Not to mention having to bother with perfective/imperfective, I'd say that English really isn't that bad at all, is it? Of course, you get into "he went" and "he has gone" and that may very well be one of the more difficult features of the language. But seriously, you can get away with saying the "went" form(what is it called, past simple or something?) almost all the time without being wrong. It will only cause a slight change in meaning but won't cause you to be flat-out incorrect like in Russian.

"Have you been to foreign countries?"
"I've been to Russia"
"I was in Russia"
Although the first is more correct, you could get away with the second one without being wrong. If a native speaker of English said the second one in response to the question it wouldn't sound strange at all(although they might perceive it as being more "wrong" if it came from someone who isn't). I must admit the use of "to" with "have been" is a little strange, but Russian has a lot of quirks with cases and prepositions you use with verbs as well.

"Did you go to the store yet?"
"I did."
"I went."
"I went already."
Again, the first is more correct, because using "do" is sort of like asking for "yes/no." The second could be said without being wrong. It's just that it sounds neutral(as does "I was" in the first example). The third makes the second feel a little more natural, because the response needed here is something that really answers the "yes/no" of the question.

Overall, I've noticed with English that most of the time you can string something together or guess and most of the time you'll be right. Whereas in Russian, you'll always be wrong if you guess!

BTW, English is a language of the German language group. Don't you think that russans will be worse if they will try to study any slavic language? It is not so hard, just try to read any ukrainian, serbian, polish, bulgarian etc texts or sites, i guarantee you can understand up to 70% of them.

Russian and ukrainian ando ther slavic langauges are like 500 times closer to each other than german and english are. So, not much of an argument there.

Originally Posted by Pravit

"Did you go to the store yet?"
"I did."
"I went."
"I went already."
Again, the first is more correct, because using "do" is sort of like asking for "yes/no."

Hmm. I would 99% of the time answer, "I already went".

"Did you go to the store yet?"
"I did."
"I went."
"I went already."

I actually would answer "I did." I would use "I already went" if the question was "WHEN are you going to the store?"

First of all, I never said that Russian is a perfect language. Secondly, guys, English is not so perfect and easy, as you think, too.

Originally Posted by Pravit

you've got to agree Russian has more irregular verbs than English does, where the rule is (almost) always "Same as infinitve for everything except 3rd person."

Actually, I never saw "The Irregular Russian Verbs Table" in the dictionaries, but I saw the English and the German ones. About your example - "иду, идёшь, идёт, идём, идёте"/go,go,goes - can you get what they're talking about if you've missed a pronoun in English?

Of course, you get into "he went" and "he has gone" and that may very well be one of the more difficult features of the language.

The most difficult feature, I would say, and also using the articles, the differences in grammar and pronouncation too - I mean American/British/Australian etc English.

Although the first is more correct, you could get away with the second one without being wrong....but Russian has a lot of quirks with cases and prepositions you use with verbs as well.

Well, I think it is not quite correct example. As a native speaker I get Armenian, Azerbaijanian, Georgian and especially Chinise local market-place sellers quite well and you even cannot imagine how they can distort the Russian language. But IMO grammatically correct speaking is hard reachable in both languages. Even you make mistakes in Russian sometime.

Overall, I've noticed with English that most of the time you can string something together or guess and most of the time you'll be right. Whereas in Russian, you'll always be wrong if you guess!

What a coincidence in our opinions! I've noticed the same with Russian!

Originally Posted by Dogboy

...slavic langauges are like 500 times closer to each other than german and english are..

Yeah, sure. Ich habe - I have, Ich bin - I am, water - wasser, come here - komm her ... and so on. They are realy diffrent languges.

As an arab, I think English is easer than Russain in terms of pronunciation, and grammar structure. On the other hand, Russian has more powerful descriptive tools and a solid and more precise grammatical structure in terms of verb conjugation and the grammatical role each word plays(declension, by the way Arabic has the most perfect declension ever). Regarding, my own experience, I have learned English when I was 11 years old own my own I used books, listened to BBC, watched TV because I have an interest in languages and other cultures. as a result, I scored High marks in English courses and I passed the Michigan Test easily. The russian is my new love and actually I have tried to learn it before and I bought a book that dissappointed me because of its preface where the author mentioned the declension obstacle but when I found this forum it gave me a new hope. I do respect english and Russian and I think in learning languages you should have some motives such as strong desire, struggle, and of course love. You should love the language in order to immesre your self in it. On last thing, English and Russian are easy to learn languages( millions of English and russian non- native speakers all over the world do not have Genius Minds,) and they worth doing so. Just begin andd think of the knowledge you will acquire by mastering these languages and the cultures you will be exposed to. By the way, Arabic is a language that when learned will inspire your imagination because it has mathematical grammar and the most beautiful calligraphy, the best phonetic system and thousands of descriptive and distinct words. ( Its my mother tongue !do not blame me)

OK JJ. Since you're the german master obviously you know if a german were to come to america and have no idea of the english language, and try to stop someone on the street and ask for something. He'd get nowhere, unless he found someone who speaks german.

Let's look at this example.

*German* Wo ist die schule ? bitte ?
*American* huh ?
*German* Kennen sie wo die schule ist ?
*American* Yea, ok... Bye.

Even in your examples, ich habe, ich bin.... they sound NOTHING Like the english "I have" "I am", and there is no way you would just understand them with no knowledge of german.

And, if a Russian were to have no knowledge of ukrainian, he could get by just fine in ukrain.

English. I love you
German. Ich liebe dich
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russian Я люблю тебя
Ukrainian Я люблю тебе

Hmm which one is closer ? I just don't know.

I am with Dogboy on this one. Linguistically speaking English has deviated quite significantly from German. Yes, it is in the germanic group that there is a huge influence of French and Latin in the language, and the grammar and lexicon is significantly different. Sure, it is easy to pick examples of English that are similar to German, but you could do the same with Russian -- just because a Russian might conceivably be able find somewhere to eat in England if he went around holding out his hands saying "ресторан?" does not mean that English and Russian are mutually intellible . . .

Having said that random examples don't work, I am now going to contradict myself . . .

Here's some random German. First line of the main news story today in Die Zeit:

"Trotz der Zugest

Originally Posted by a true arab

On last thing, English and Russian are easy to learn languages( millions of English and russian non- native speakers all over the world do not have Genius Minds,) and they worth doing so. Just begin andd think of the knowledge you will acquire by mastering these languages and the cultures you will be exposed to. By the way, Arabic is a language that when learned will inspire your imagination because it has mathematical grammar and the most beautiful calligraphy, the best phonetic system and thousands of descriptive and distinct words. ( Its my mother tongue !do not blame me)

No question Arabic has high credentials given the rich tradition of philosophers, historians, mathematicians, etc. that have written in the language. But, there again, so do a bunch of languages -- Greek, Latin, English, German . . .

Notice how all of these are languages associated with very powerful empires. That's not a coincidence. Those societies did not get ahead because of their languages (rather it is the other way around) . . anyway, I am getting off topic.

My point is this. Linguistics folks pretty much agree that ALL languages are equally "good" and "sophisticated". You can describe anything in any language with an equal level of sophisitication. Granted some languages may have more words in a particular area, which might make things easier (assuming the speakers know them), but that does not make them "better." The only exceptions to this are some pidgins and creoles, but a bunch of them have now grown up into full blown languages.

Also, of course, EVERY language is equally easy for a native speaker to learn to speak (notice I said speak). "Difficulty" in learning language only means difference between the langauge currently spoken and the target language. This can't be the first time someone has pointed that out on this forum.

Originally Posted by JJ

Actually, I never saw "The Irregular Russian Verbs Table" in the dictionaries, but I saw the English and the German ones.

Now you have seen! It's as complicated as it's impossible to put together all exceptions.

Comparing it to Russian was the wrong way to go about doing it, I agree. I'm not intending to say "This language is better than that one." But my point is that English is really not such a terrible and difficult language for non-native speakers to learn. The point of the "go/go/goes" example is that there is (usually) much more margin for error in English than in other languages(and I used Russian as an example). Of course, it depends on the native language of the one learning it too.

PS Dogboy - I believe it's "кохаю тебе", isn't it? Although I think most Russians are familiar with that too, anyway. Perhaps both are used?

Pravit ~

Lol, i dunno. There is just his ukrainian guy who i have known for like years (And now i work with him at godfathers pizza ! wierd !) And he was writing a note to his girlfriend in ukrianin, and he ended it with Я люблю тебе. And i was like "тебе??" and he "Ukrainian". So i said. Oh, ok.

Im positive you have 100% more knowledge than me of ukrainian, i was just using that as an example. (And... i didn't mess up any of the german??)

Hee.

IMHO, English is easier to become functionally conversational in than many other languages, but it's extremely difficult to perfect, because of all the irregular ridiculousness and the tense system, which is just stupid. I mean, have you ever looked at 501 English Verbs? They can't even put the verbs into tables. They're just lists without any rhyme or reason.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Hmm which one is closer ? I just don't know.

We discuss about nothing. I am agree with you that Slavic languages are closer to each other than German ones. But I want to say that it doesen't matter how many times German languages less close to each other than Slavic, they ARE close anyway and the easiness of studing English for German students is not a characteristic of English global easiness as a language.

Originally Posted by TexasMark

"Trotz der Zugeständnisse der Bundesregierung sind am Montagabend etwa doppelt so viele Menschen gegen die Arbeitsmarktreformen auf die Straße gegangen wie in der Woche zuvor."

Don't know about you, but I don't have a clue what that says . . .

I never studied German but don't you see the rooots "Bundes"(I guess it's kinda "federal"), "doppelt" (kinda "double"), so, menschen - men, Arbeitsmarktreformen - it's clear - "work market reforms", Straße- street, in.

Originally Posted by Pravit

PS Dogboy - I believe it's "кохаю тебе", isn't it? Although I think most Russians are familiar with that too, anyway. Perhaps both are used?

Yes, both verbs are used. For example the ukrainian folklore song:
Распрягайтэ хлопцы коней
И лягайтэ почивать.
А я пыйду в сад зэлэный
Красну девицу кохать.

Originally Posted by JJ

Don't know about you, but I don't have a clue what that says . . .

I never studied German but don't you see the rooots "Bundes"(I guess it's kinda "federal"), "doppelt" (kinda "double"), so, menschen - men, Arbeitsmarktreformen - it's clear - "work market reforms", Straße- street, in.[/quote]

JJ, is someone was speaking this in german to you, you would not have understood any of it, let alone have enough time to think about the root of each word.

besides, u decoded... what 5 words ? Do u know the meaning of the sentence ? no... u just know a few words from it... no context. Blah.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

besides, u decoded... what 5 words ? Do u know the meaning of the sentence ? no... u just know a few words from it... no context. Blah.

Actually I've decoded 7 words of 20 (it's about 35% of the text) although I never studied German.