разные предложения

осторожно! ещё раз я попробую писать по-русски! это не будет красивый!

проверите, пожалуйста, если возможно. спасибо.

-По-моему студенты часто одалживают деньги у своих родители, потому что, у них очень мало деньги. Когда я был студент, был всегда бедный.

-Мне кажется что, вообще, брать в долг деньги у друзей – плохая идея. Будет много проблем.

-Иногда государство должен одалживать деньги. На пример, он взят деньги у банков, чтобы поддерживать экономия.

-Если бы была проблема с компьютером, то я позвонил бы мой брат.

Воскресение я купил DVD Винни Пуха, благодаря рекомендации несколько друзей. В улице Ленина (? Или на?) есть отличный магазин, в котором находится очень много музыки и фильмов.
Мне нравится Винни Пух. Хотя мне кажется что, он – настоящий дурак! (может быт слишком грубый?) На пример, когда он шёл в гости к кролику, он уничтожал дому кролики. Конечно, он уже доел всю еду кролики.
Но несмотря на это, у него есть приятный характер и он любит петь …
И сейчас устал. Вы тоже, наверно! :)

Stupid mistake.... Wanted to edit the post and clicked Quote instead of Edit :(

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Originally Posted by waxwing

-По-моему студенты часто одалживают деньги у своих родители, потому что, у них очень мало деньги.

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По-моему, студенты часто одалживают деньги у родителей потому/из-за того/по той причине, что у них мало денег.

Please note that meaning of this sentence depends on whether you place a comma before "потому что" or like this: "потому, что". If you use the latter version, it would mean that the the fact that students have little money is the reason they borrow money from their parents. I guess this is what you wanted to say. But if you say "По-моему, студенты часто одалживают деньги у родителей, потому что у них мало денег", it will mean something like: "Students have little money, therefore, it follows that they must be borrowing money from their parents".

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Когда я был студент, был всегда бедный.

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Когда я был студентом, я всегда был беден.

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Мне кажется что, вообще, брать в долг деньги у друзей – плохая идея.

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Мне кажется, что брать деньги в долг у друзей -- это вообще не слишком разумно.

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Иногда государство должен одалживать деньги. На пример, он взят деньги у банков, чтобы поддерживать экономия.

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Иногда государство должно брать деньги в долг. Например, оно берёт деньги у банков, чтобы поддерживать экономику.

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Если бы была проблема с компьютером, то я позвонил бы мой брат.

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Если бы у меня была/возникла проблема с компьютером, (то) я бы позвонил своему брату.

("позвонил бы" is corect too)

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Воскресение я купил DVD Винни Пуха, благодаря рекомендации несколько друзей.

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По рекомендации нескольких друзей в воскресенье я купил DVD с мультфильмом про Винни-Пуха.

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В улице Ленина (? Или на?) есть отличный магазин, в котором находится очень много музыки и фильмов.

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It is "На" :)

На улице Ленина находится отличный магазин, где есть/имеется/продаётся очень много музыки и фильмов.

You CAN say "На улице Ленина есть отличный магазин", but in this case you can't use "есть" in the second clause. But no matter what, you cannot say that music and films "находится" в магазине.

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Мне нравится Винни Пух. Хотя мне кажется что, он – настоящий дурак! (может быт слишком грубый?)

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Мне нравится Винни-Пух, хотя мне кажется, что он очень глупый/глуп!

(Yes, "настоящий дурак" sounds too rude).

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На пример, когда он шёл в гости к кролику, он уничтожал дому кролики.

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Например, когда он пришёл в гости к кролику, он разрушил дом кролика.

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Но несмотря на это, у него есть приятный характер и он любит петь …

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Just throw away "есть", and it will be perfect :)

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И сейчас устал.

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А сейчас я устал. If you don't say "Я" here, it will be understood as though it is Winnie who is tired.

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Вы тоже, наверно! :)

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Yawwwn... Good... Yawwwwn.... Russian Big Yawwwwwwwwn

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Originally Posted by waxwing

-Мне кажется что, вообще, брать в долг деньги у друзей – плохая идея. Будет много проблем.

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Спорное утверждение. :) А для чего тогда нужны друзья, если нельзя расчитывать на их помощь?

Некоторые друзья сразу перестанут быть друзьями. Но это даже полезно, ведь останутся настоящие друзья.

Ok ok..... I'll correct your post, but just this once.

Ok, as to your first paragraph..... just kidding, I dont know jack! :lol: :twisted: :P :cry: :oops: :roll: :wink: :D

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Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

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Originally Posted by waxwing

-По-моему студенты часто одалживают деньги у своих родители, потому что, у них очень мало деньги.

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По-моему, студенты часто одалживают деньги у родителей потому/из-за того/по той причине, что у них мало денег.

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не понимаю значение : 'по той причине' .. 'по причине' я знаю..

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Please note that meaning of this sentence depends on whether you place a comma before "потому что" or like this: "потому, что". If you use the latter version, it would mean that the the fact that students have little money is the reason they borrow money from their parents. I guess this is what you wanted to say. But if you say "По-моему, студенты часто одалживают деньги у родителей, потому что у них мало денег", it will mean something like: "Students have little money, therefore, it follows that they must be borrowing money from their parents".


[quote:is8xdabx] Когда я был студент, был всегда бедный.

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Когда я был студентом, я всегда был беден.
[/quote:is8xdabx]

ах! студентом... глупый..

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[quote:is8xdabx]Мне кажется что, вообще, брать в долг деньги у друзей – плохая идея.

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Мне кажется, что брать деньги в долг у друзей -- это вообще не слишком разумно.
[/quote:is8xdabx]

'плохая идея' невозможно?

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[quote:is8xdabx]Иногда государство должен одалживать деньги. На пример, он взят деньги у банков, чтобы поддерживать экономия.

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Иногда государство должно брать деньги в долг. Например, оно берёт деньги у банков, чтобы поддерживать экономику.

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Если бы была проблема с компьютером, то я позвонил бы мой брат.

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Если бы у меня была/возникла проблема с компьютером, (то) я бы позвонил своему брату.

("позвонил бы" is corect too)

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Воскресение я купил DVD Винни Пуха, благодаря рекомендации несколько друзей.

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По рекомендации нескольких друзей в воскресенье я купил DVD с мультфильмом про Винни-Пуха.

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В улице Ленина (? Или на?) есть отличный магазин, в котором находится очень много музыки и фильмов.

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It is "На" :)

На улице Ленина находится отличный магазин, где есть/имеется/продаётся очень много музыки и фильмов.

You CAN say "На улице Ленина есть отличный магазин", but in this case you can't use "есть" in the second clause. But no matter what, you cannot say that music and films "находится" в магазине.

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Мне нравится Винни Пух. Хотя мне кажется что, он – настоящий дурак! (может быт слишком грубый?)

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Мне нравится Винни-Пух, хотя мне кажется, что он очень глупый/глуп!

(Yes, "настоящий дурак" sounds too rude).

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На пример, когда он шёл в гости к кролику, он уничтожал дому кролики.

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Например, когда он пришёл в гости к кролику, он разрушил дом кролика.
[/quote:is8xdabx]
по-английски, мы использоваем прийти только если здес, нет там :) . Hehe - I mean you can only say 'he came visiting' if you're referring to the place in which you're speaking. If that rule doesn't apply in Russian, how do I choose between 'came' and 'went' visiting?

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[quote:is8xdabx]Но несмотря на это, у него есть приятный характер и он любит петь …

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Just throw away "есть", and it will be perfect :)
[/quote:is8xdabx]
да, да, понял, ещё раз глупая ошибка...

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[quote:is8xdabx]И сейчас устал.

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А сейчас я устал. If you don't say "Я" here, it will be understood as though it is Winnie who is tired.

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Вы тоже, наверно! :)

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Yawwwn... Good... Yawwwwn.... Russian Big Yawwwwwwwwn[/quote:is8xdabx]
Good Russian? я не верю тебя, но спасибо :lol:

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Originally Posted by waxwing

не понимаю значение : 'по той причине' .. 'по причине' я знаю..

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"По той причине, что..." - this is just another way to say "because" :)

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'плохая идея' невозможно?

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Well, you CAN say "плохая идея", and it will be understood, but it sounds like a literal translation from English.

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[quote:1jvhvm3o]На пример, когда он шёл в гости к кролику, он уничтожал дому кролики.

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Например, когда он пришёл в гости к кролику, он разрушил дом кролика.
[/quote:1jvhvm3o]
по-английски, мы использоваем прийти только если здес, нет там :) . Hehe - I mean you can only say 'he came visiting' if you're referring to the place in which you're speaking. If that rule doesn't apply in Russian, how do I choose between 'came' and 'went' visiting?

"Я пошёл в гости" means something like "I left my house and started moving towards the place I was going to visit". It is departure. "Я пришёл в гости" means that you arrived to this place. "Я шёл в гости" means that you were walking to this place.

Btw, don't you think that your explanation is oversimplified? How about this: "When I came to her place, she was cooking dinner". The speaker is not at his friend's place at the moment.

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[quote:1jvhvm3o] [quote:1jvhvm3o]Вы тоже, наверно! :)

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Yawwwn... Good... Yawwwwn.... Russian Big Yawwwwwwwwn[/quote:1jvhvm3o]
Good Russian? я не верю тебя, но спасибо :lol:[/quote:1jvhvm3o]
I meant that "Вы тоже, наверное" was corect :)

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Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

Btw, don't you think that your explanation is oversimplified? How about this: "When I came to her place, she was cooking dinner". The speaker is not at his friend's place at the moment.

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Really, I think this is wrong. It is a very common mistake amongst Russians. You should say 'When I arrived at her place'/'When I reached her place'/'When I got to her place' (the last is by far the most common in speech). Some might disagree with me, but I find it to be bad English to use the verb 'come' like that.
Of course, you can say 'When I went to her place' but that implies the whole trip rather than just the arrival, as is meant in your example.

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Originally Posted by waxwing

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Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

Btw, don't you think that your explanation is oversimplified? How about this: "When I came to her place, she was cooking dinner". The speaker is not at his friend's place at the moment.

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Really, I think this is wrong. It is a very common mistake amongst Russians. You should say 'When I arrived at her place'/'When I reached her place'/'When I got to her place' (the last is by far the most common in speech). Some might disagree with me, but I find it to be bad English to use the verb 'come' like that.

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That's very interesting. But is there an explanation why "come" shouldn't be used here?

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Originally Posted by waxwing

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Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

Btw, don't you think that your explanation is oversimplified? How about this: "When I came to her place, she was cooking dinner". The speaker is not at his friend's place at the moment.

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Really, I think this is wrong. It is a very common mistake amongst Russians. You should say 'When I arrived at her place'/'When I reached her place'/'When I got to her place' (the last is by far the most common in speech). Some might disagree with me, but I find it to be bad English to use the verb 'come' like that.
Of course, you can say 'When I went to her place' but that implies the whole trip rather than just the arrival, as is meant in your example.

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If this is true, then I have used "come" incorrectly for many years! :(

I remember reading in some textbook that "come" means motion toward or arrival too a place where the speaker is (well, that obvious) OR which is in the focus of attention—in other words, the place that you are talking about.

Well I'd really like some input from other native speakers here, since I'm not fully sure in my own mind. Let's look at some examples:

Metaphorical:
I've come to the conclusion ...
You will come to realize..

Giving directions.
Turn left. You will come to a fork in the road. (this will sound rather odd in a street conversation, formal, even archaic .. but still it must be OK)

Invitations.
Come and see me when you're in London.
--> Counter example to my 'rule'. This would be OK, even if I met you in Paris, and my home is in London.

So let me throw my attempt at definition of 'come' into the bin... :roll:
Can any other native speakers confirm that 'When I came to her place, she was cooking dinner' sounds strange? Or alternatively confirm that I am just barking mad? :lol:

Well, to use 'come' isn't wrong per se, but I must admit the equivalents waxwing gave did sound far more natural. Don't know why. Perhaps it's just British usage.

Or maybe I've got it: when the location the subject is going to isn't in some way attached to the subject of the sentence, you can't use 'come'. Though this might be bollocks.

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Originally Posted by waxwing

Giving directions.
Turn left. You will come to a fork in the road. (this will sound rather odd in a street conversation, formal, even archaic .. but still it must be OK)

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And how would you say it in another way, so that it won't sound odd and formal?

You'll get to a , or you'll see a .. actually thinking about it a second time, it's not *that* formal... I think people do use it. Not one to worry about anyway, you'll certainly be understood.

Thanks waxwing, but what is the difference between "to come to her place" and the example you used in your answer to Vladimir? Is it because of the name of the country?

Oh well that one, at least, is easy. I am *in* Russia right now, so I say ..come to Russia..

waxwing is right that "came to her place" sounds wrong for paying visits. "Got to her place" would be the most natural sounding. You can't go wrong with "arrived at".

I don't know why, but maybe a very loose rule is that came is used from the point of view of the subject, referring to a place where he or she usually is, like a home or office. Thus, "they came for a visit" or "when they first came in" from the point of view of the person being visited, but "I went for a visit" and "when I first went in" for the visitor. I think "came" implies the subject usually is or belongs at a given place.

In some contexts, you could use either "came" or "got to" but the meaning would be slightly different.

When I first came to New York... (an immigrant might say this, or someone who has come to New York and stayed)

When we got to New York... (just concentrating on the action, doesn't imply anything about the subject)

On the other hand, "We went to New York for 6 weeks." We went, but then left.

My favorite quote with "came", from St. Augustine (more recently made famous by T.S. Eliot in the Waste Land) "To Carthage then I came"

I should have said from the point of view of the speaker, not the subject, in the post above.

To waxwing:
Well, but let's try to answer Waxwing's question about Russian verbs.

In Russian, we don't take into consideration the location of a speaker and a listener. There are different rules for this case. You should concentrate on two points:
1. The means of moving - walking (on foot), riding (by car, by train, or riding a horse etc.), sailing (by ship) or flying (by plane).
2. The stage of moving - departure, arrival or moving itself (3 stages in total).

So, we have:

......................departure................... ................arrival........................... process

on foot..........уходить/уйти (to leave).........приходить/придти.......ходить/идти
................or пойти (to start moving)

by vehicle......уезжать/уехать (to leave).....приезжать/приехать....ездить/ехать
................or поехать (to start moving)

by ship.....уплывать/уплыть (to leave).....приплывать/приплыть.......плавать/плыть
................or поплыть (to start moving)

by plane.......улетать/улететь (to leave)....прилетать/прилететь....летать/лететь
................or полететь (to start moving)

Note 1. It is possible to use "vehicle verbs" for going by ship, and sometimes by plane, too.

Note 2. The verbs for depature and arrival are given as imperfective/perfective pairs; the verbs with по- are only perfective (they indicate the action has started); the verbs for process are always imperfective, but the first one is for indefinite direction, and the second is for a definite "mono-directional" moving.

So, they don't depend on where the speaker currently is; but they depend on "traveling stage".

спасибо болшое, константин .. ты настоящий преподаватель русского языка ! :)
эти глаголы, мне кажется, самые трудные слова в русском языке

между прочим, почему возможно сказать "пошли" когда ... пойдём :)
и тоже "пошлите" .. я ненавижу ... :roll:

Saying "пошли" is almost the same as "мы пошли", which means "we are gone". Just like the English phrase it is often used to refer to a situation when "we're about to go", and then, by extension, make it imperative.

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Originally Posted by bad manners

Saying "пошли" is almost the same as "мы пошли", which means "we are gone". Just like the English phrase it is often used to refer to a situation when "we're about to go", and then, by extension, make it imperative.

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That's right. In Russian, the form of past tense (perfective) is sometimes used as imperative.

E.g. "Взяли!". Can't think of any other examples offhand, but I am sure there are more of them.

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Originally Posted by bad manners

между прочим, почему возможно сказать "пошли" когда ... пойдём и тоже "пошлите" .. я ненавижу ...

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Пошли, пошлите - Send (Send this letter to Mr.X) Пошли/Пошлите это письмо господину Х.
Пошли - May be it's not correct but I heard them both. Пошли с нами. Пойдём с нами. (It means the same - Go with us.)
Пошли - Пошли их всех. (I'm thinking about translation but it close to "Refuse them all and don't care about it")
Пошлите - from Пошлить = to say salty things. Пошлите, молодой человек.

:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by bad manners

Saying "пошли" is almost the same as "мы пошли", which means "we are gone".

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I think, "we are gone" is closer to "мы ушли", isn't it?

боже мой ... я сдаваюсь :)

To badmanners,
I also came to the conclusion that пошли is something close to 'I'm gone' or the more common 'I'm out of here' but I see a few problems. Pashli is like 'Let's go' (it's plural right?) and people never say things like 'Let's be gone (already)' in English. But that's a translation problem, doesn't matter.

What I would like to know is, exactly how 'slangy' is пошли? I hear it all the time in conversation, but would you write it?

And I don't get it about salty things :?:

I think that past perfective in the sense of imperative is colloquial, informal, and sometimes even more or less rude.
"Быстро собрал свои вещи и ушёл отсюда!" - says a wife to her husband while in a quarrel. - get your things and be gone. Now!
"Упал, отжался!" - says a sergeant to a private in the Army. (don't know how to say отжаться in English. :( :D it means a physical exersice when you push away from the ground with your hands. BTW how it will be in English?)
"А ну-ка встал с чужого места и сел к параше!" (It is in prison when an old 'respected' criminal asks a novice to move his ass away from the good place and sit by a close-stool :D )
I think the idea is that the request is so urgent that it is expected that somebody show a result immediately, as if it had been already made before the request was articulated.
:)

As for 'пошлите' in the sense of 'let's go', well... I think it is vulgar. Not rude, not informal, not uneducated, but simply VULGAR in plebeian sense. It is appropriate to those people form suburbs, you know, the best entertainment of whom are vodka drinking and then poking somebody in the kisser.

"Push-ups" is American term for that exercise. But in the military the nasty sergeants would usually omit the name of the exercise and just say "drop and give me 20!" or 30, or 50 or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Propp

"Упал, отжался!" - says a sergeant to a private in the Army. (don't know how to say отжаться in English. :( :D it means a physical exersice when you push away from the ground with your hands. BTW how it will be in English?)

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Push-up or press up.
The former is used mostly in American English, the latter in British English

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Originally Posted by waxwing

боже мой ... я сдаваюсь :)

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Я сдаюсь is right. :)
You can сдавать (bring) a found weapon to the police or (give back) used cans/bottles to the store.

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Originally Posted by waxwing

And I don't get it about salty things :?:

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n. пошлость - platitude, salty thing
v. пошлить - to say пошлости

Пошлите, молодой человек. - (It is a rebuke with a hint.) Young man, you can't talk those things here.

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Originally Posted by Propp

As for 'пошлите' in the sense of 'let's go', well... I think it is vulgar. Not rude, not informal, not uneducated, but simply VULGAR in plebeian sense. It is appropriate to those people form suburbs, you know, the best entertainment of whom are vodka drinking and then poking somebody in the kisser.

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Very interesting post, thank you. I suspected as much. I don't like it, it sounds weird, but now I know it's actually vulgar. I love the bit about suburbs :lol: By the way, it's better to say something like 'punching someone in the kisser' (since you're using British slang, and 'poking' has a rather different meaning there :wink: )

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Originally Posted by waxwing

By the way, it's better to say something like 'punching someone in the kisser' (since you're using British slang, and 'poking' has a rather different meaning there :wink: )

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About slang-- :)

punching someone in the kisser = дать в табло, разбить хлебало