Будьте

Hello, I was wondering about the pronunciation of this word from my Russian book. "Будьте" Should it be palatalized "d" and then palatalized "t" and e, meaning you pronounce both the d and t? Or maybe two palatalized "t" sounds one after the other because the unvoiced "t" sound will make the "d" sound unvoiced? Or just one "t" sound, as if the word were spelled Буте?
As I am just beginning my studies, there are some other pronunciations that I find confusing. With words like знаешь is the end supposed to be pronounced just like a щ ? Likewise, with жить should it be an unpalatalized "zh" sound plus a "ы" mid-mouth sound like in Bы , or a palatalized "zh" sound with a "и" front-mouth sound like in Kнига ?
And the last problem I run into is with words like Брошюра. There's three ways I can think of how to pronounce it: 1) unpalatalized "sh" sound plus "u" sound. 2) palatalized "sh" sound like щ followed by "u" sound.
3) unpalatalized "sh" sound(ш) followed by a "yu" sound almost like there was a hard sign before the ю . Are any of those right?

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Originally Posted by livefromnizhgiy

Hello, I was wondering about the pronunciation of this word from my Russian book. "Будьте" Should it be palatalized "d" and then palatalized "t" and e, meaning you pronounce both the d and t? Or maybe two palatalized "t" sounds one after the other because the unvoiced "t" sound will make the "d" sound unvoiced? Or just one "t" sound, as if the word were spelled Буте?
As I am just beginning my studies, there are some other pronunciations that I find confusing. With words like знаешь is the end supposed to be pronounced just like a щ ? Likewise, with жить should it be an unpalatalized "zh" sound plus a "ы" mid-mouth sound like in Bы , or a palatalized "zh" sound with a "и" front-mouth sound like in Kнига ?
And the last problem I run into is with words like Брошюра. There's three ways I can think of how to pronounce it: 1) unpalatalized "sh" sound plus "u" sound. 2) palatalized "sh" sound like щ followed by "u" sound.
3) unpalatalized "sh" sound(ш) followed by a "yu" sound almost like there was a hard sign before the ю . Are any of those right?

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I think Будьте is like бутте (with a long palatised T).

A soft sign after Ш is redundant, it does nothing to the pronunciation because Ш is always hard.
знаешь is pronounced знаеш

Ш Ж Ц are always hard, even if a 'soft' consonant it written after them, thus:

жить is pronounced жыть
шёл is pronounced шол
цирк is pronounced цырк
шесть is pronounced шэсть

As for брошюра, it is a foreign loan word, so the normal Russian pronunciation rules may be ignored. I'm not sure how Russians say it, but if we take normal rules applied to proper Russian words it would be pronounced: брашура.

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Originally Posted by TATY

I'm not sure how Russians say it, but if we take normal rules applied to proper Russian words it would be pronounced: брашура.

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It's right.

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Originally Posted by Оля

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Originally Posted by TATY

I'm not sure how Russians say it, but if we take normal rules applied to proper Russian words it would be pronounced: брашура.

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It's right.

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Ура!

By the way, it is better to say "That's right" in this context.

Будьте = [бут'т'е] Prolonged soft "t"

Знаешь. Just ordinary Ш on the end. Ь is purely grammatical here.

Жить sounds like [жЫт']. Ж and Ш are always hard in modern Russian, that's why they teach children in elementary school: "жи" "ши" пиши через "и"! Otherwise they tend to write is as they hear it (жы шы).


Брошюра is [-шу-]. It is traditional spelling. Recently there was a discussion on whether to cancel this spelling and start to write "брошура" (as well as "парашут", "жури" instead of "парашют", "жюри"), but fortunatley it didn't pass.

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Originally Posted by Propp

Будьте = [бут'т'е] Prolonged soft "t"

Знаешь. Just ordinary Ш on the end. Ь is purely grammatical here.

Жить sounds like [жЫт']. Ж and Ш are always hard in modern Russian, that's why they teach children in elementary school: "жи" "ши" пиши через "и"! Otherwise they tend to write is as they hear it (жы шы).


Брошюра is [-шу-]. It is traditional spelling. Recently there was a discussion on whether to cancel this spelling and start to write "брошура" (as well as "парашут", "жури" instead of "парашют", "жюри"), but fortunatley it didn't pass.

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I believe it is because the word came from French (Brochure) and French ch (English sh) is much softer than Russian's very hard Ш. Thus they wrote the soft vowel Ю. However Russians just pronounce the Ш hard as usual.

It is a bit annoying how in Russian you have to write И instead of Ы after Ш and Ж but you have to say Ы instead of И!

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Originally Posted by TATY

I believe it is because the word came from French (Brochure) and French ch (English sh) is much softer than Russian's very hard Ш. Thus they wrote the soft vowel Ю. However Russians just pronounce the Ш hard as usual.

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I think it's because French "U" is more like "Ю", only without [й] sound in the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Propp

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Originally Posted by TATY

I believe it is because the word came from French (Brochure) and French ch (English sh) is much softer than Russian's very hard Ш. Thus they wrote the soft vowel Ю. However Russians just pronounce the Ш hard as usual.

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I think it's because French "U" is more like "Ю", only without [й] sound in the beginning.

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Yes. Because French ou and u are different aren't they. Isn't French U as in lune like the German

Wow, thank you very much TATY! I am totally cleared up on everything, and I do definitely agree that the whole и and ы thing is annoying. Yeah, French "u" is like a like German u with umlaut when it's a long vowel in German, but the short u with umlaut is a little bit different, like the difference between the vowel sounds in "feel" and "itch."

I'd never really thought about the

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Originally Posted by TATY

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Originally Posted by Propp

Будьте = [бут'т'е] Prolonged soft "t"

Знаешь. Just ordinary Ш on the end. Ь is purely grammatical here.

Жить sounds like [жЫт']. Ж and Ш are always hard in modern Russian, that's why they teach children in elementary school: "жи" "ши" пиши через "и"! Otherwise they tend to write is as they hear it (жы шы).


Брошюра is [-шу-]. It is traditional spelling. Recently there was a discussion on whether to cancel this spelling and start to write "брошура" (as well as "парашут", "жури" instead of "парашют", "жюри"), but fortunatley it didn't pass.

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I believe it is because the word came from French (Brochure) and French ch (English sh) is much softer than Russian's very hard Ш. Thus they wrote the soft vowel Ю. However Russians just pronounce the Ш hard as usual.

It is a bit annoying how in Russian you have to write И instead of Ы after Ш and Ж but you have to say Ы instead of И!

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Originally Posted by Бармалей

I'd never really thought about the

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Originally Posted by TATY

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Propp

Будьте = [бут'т'е] Prolonged soft "t"

Знаешь. Just ordinary Ш on the end. Ь is purely grammatical here.

Жить sounds like [жЫт']. Ж and Ш are always hard in modern Russian, that's why they teach children in elementary school: "жи" "ши" пиши через "и"! Otherwise they tend to write is as they hear it (жы шы).


Брошюра is [-шу-]. It is traditional spelling. Recently there was a discussion on whether to cancel this spelling and start to write "брошура" (as well as "парашут", "жури" instead of "парашют", "жюри"), but fortunatley it didn't pass.

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I believe it is because the word came from French (Brochure) and French ch (English sh) is much softer than Russian's very hard Ш. Thus they wrote the soft vowel Ю. However Russians just pronounce the Ш hard as usual.

It is a bit annoying how in Russian you have to write И instead of Ы after Ш and Ж but you have to say Ы instead of И!

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About the what?

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Originally Posted by livefromnizhgiy

... I do definitely agree that the whole и and ы thing is annoying.

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It's annoying only to foreiners, learning Russian. Btw, children usually start to pronounce "и" and "ы" sounds properly much earlier than "р" and "л". :P

[quote=TATY]Yes. Because French ou and u are different aren't they. Isn't French U as in lune like the German