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Is there any trend among Russians away from the customary naming system (i.e. first name-patronymic-last name)?
Возникает ли у русских какое-нибудь направление от привычной системы присвоения имён (т.е. имя-отчество-фамилия)?
Пожалуйста, исправляйте мои ошибки.
I just thought I'd pass you this link, which deals with Eastern Slavic (and therefore also Russian) naming customs.
The customary naming system (first name-patronymic-last name) is used and i have never heard of issues as to changing it. Does that answer the question?
I'm afraid I did not fully get what you are trying to ask. Do you mean,Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrets
1) Is there a trend of chaninging the traditional naming system?
or
2) Is there a trend to use alternative ways when addressing someone?
First I thought you meant 2). But then I realized you might probably mean 1).
If 2), then the answer is: when addressing someone in speech, we almost (>99%) never use the 3-component system. Depending on a situation, and on one's personal relations, we choose between various ways of naming an addressee:
- Full given name + Patronimic (polite and official);
- Full given name alone;
- Short given name (there are plenty of diminutive forms available);
- Full given name + Family name;
- Short given name + Family name;
- Patronimic alone (very informal addressing to elders);
- Family name alone (this one is mostly used when addressing a student by a teacher in school, otherwise it would sound rude).
But if you mean 1), the answer is NO.
The sentence is worded incorrectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrets
But I can only correct it if you clarify what you mean by this question (1 or 2).
Thank you for the link. It's detailed and very informative. I'm most interested by the line "one exception is modern performers, such as Dima Bilan and Natash Koroleva, who often adopt a diminutive form of their first name as part of their stage name." I wonder whether everyday Russians, who are influenced by "western" ways and occasionally imitate them, are giving their children names that are less formal.
I'm not concerned here with the way Russians address each other. I wonder whether everyday Russians, who are possibly influenced by "western" ways and occasionally imitate them, are giving their children names that are less formal. In America, we're accustomed to a more casual naming convention and we even make names up or give family names as first names. Are there any Russian parents officially naming their children, for instance, Misha Petrov or Nadya Petrova? Does anyone skip the patronymic all together?Quote:
But if you mean 1), the answer is NO.
I've never heard of it, and such a name in a official document will sound distinctly weird. If children with such names exist, I predict a lot of explaining for them to do in the future. They will have to explain all the time that these are their "full" names, not diminutives, when filling official forms.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrets
I believe, that Russians who prefer Western ways would name their kids with Western or exotic names. not with diminutives of regular "Russian" names. Such trend existed even in the USSR - my school military instructor (who was an ex-military himself) was named Harry. Combined with his very traditional Russian patronymic it was rather funny (in a good way).
OK. Now I see what you mean. Sorry for the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrets
I agree with Gromozeka. I am pretty sure - no.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrets
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrets
Moreover, if a foreigner accepts the Russian citizenship due to some reason, he/she just have to have a patronimic! It is required for all the official documents. He/she would not be able even to get a Russian passport with empty "отчество" field.
As far as I know, foreigners may use various ways to get a patronimic: they can derive it from their actual father's name according to the Russian rules; or they can derive it from their middle name, surname etc., or even invent a patronimic they wish. The basic requirement is it should follow the Russian language pattern: -ович/-евич for men or -овна/-евна for women.
Example: if a Chinese man whose name is Xiao Shu Lian (Сяо Шу Лянь in Cyrillic transliteration) accepts the Russian citizenship, he may be registered as Сяо Шуевич Лянь officially. It sounds unusual and a bit funny for Russians, but so are the rules.
I hope you get the idea ;)
This is not correctQuote:
Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман
My daughter being a citizen of the US and Russia has two passports, both with no patronymic
The reason of that is when we as parents filled up application for the US birth certificate we didn't put any middle names there. Later when we came to Russian embassy to confirm her Russian citizenship we had to provide exact translation of her birth certificate with the original US birth certificate with the apostille. Turns out the rules are - no middle name in the US birth certificate - no patronymic in Russian documents
Кстати, я когда-то столкнулся с тем, что в официальных документах (еще со времен Сталина, кажется) было разрешено писать отчества на татарский манер: добавляя "улы" вместо -вич и "кызы" вместо -вна. Я сам имел дело с украинской гражданкой где-то 88-го года рождения, которая по документам значилась как "Малик кызы" в графе "отчество".
I'm pretty sure even that doesn't cover it. I have Russian friends whose eldest son was born in the UK, and when they registered his birth they gave him a patronymic as his middle name, specifically because they thought that would allow them to transfer it to his Russian documentation as an отчество later. No go though, neither the Russian embassy in London nor whichever government branch they tried to deal with at home in Petrozavodsk would recognise "middle name" from his UK birth certificate as an "отчество", so the poor kid has ended up with a passport that saysQuote:
Originally Posted by Doomer
фамилия: Петров
имя: Никита Владимирович
отчество:
Which is worse than if they'd just not given him a middle name.
Thank you for responding.
Спасибо за ответы.