Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Thanks for your infinite patience :angel: with my stupid comments! :wall:
I must start using a grammar book! http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/5234/br2th8.gif
I think it's time I gave up on that stupid Swedish-Russian grammar book which is never arriving. Apparently it's out of stock. There was an unexpectedly high number of kids that signed up for Russian this year as school started and it run out. Bad timing for me.That book is supposed to be genius, and Swedish has some minor grammatical similarities to Russian which English is lacking -- that's why I've been hanging on to this idea.
But I'll get some other version or an English one.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Johanna, the main character of the film "Ирония судьбы" couldn't notice the difference in how all the other people were speaking even if there was such difference because he was drunk as a Lord :bad: :roll:
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Wow, to somebody from Europe this is almost hard to believe. it sounds impossible. Even the USA has accents...
But if you say so... !
:angel:
So the people who sound like they have accents are simply those with a different mother tongue.....
When I was kid and watched that film, you know, with the man who gets drunk and ends up in Leningrad on New Years Eve (forgot the title), I thought the plot was very silly, since he ought to have been able to notice the difference in how all the other people were speaking.... I thought the whole plot was completely flawed for this reason.. But I guess I was mistaken.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Eastern Ukrainians who speak Russian as their native language universally stretch sounds like "Нууу яяя емууу сказааал".
In Russia everywhere you speak absolutely identical.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Pollymundo
Johanna, the main character of the film "Ирония судьбы" couldn't notice the difference in how all the other people were speaking even if there was such difference because he was drunk as a Lord :bad: :roll:
Lol!! I know he was drunk..... But he sobered up after he got to the flat, didn't he? Plus -- In the UK you would have to be DEAD not to notice the difference between Manchester and London accents. Or München vs Hamburg accent in Germany.... I think Russia is the ONLY country in the world that does not have accents.
I have a bad habit of ruining the viewing experience for myself by thinking about what's implausible about a film. Silly habit really, but that makes me think of things like that.
Other than that, this film is very funny and cleverly done. It sure looks like Russia is full of 1960s "rocket" style identical looking public housing, and streets with the same names.... I think it's a genius film, apart from feeling a bit sorry for the girl who got stood up on New Years Eve, and dumped in favour of the Leningrad girl. What did she do wrong to deserve such treatment??
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
I think it's a genius film, apart from feeling a bit sorry for the girl who got stood up on New Years Eve, and dumped in favour of the Leningrad girl.
There's a newer sequel of that movie in which Eugene actually marries Galya and they have a son. And also Nadya marries Ippolit (and they have a daughter). But both couples got divorced by the time the action takes place.
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Originally Posted by Johanna
What did she do wrong to deserve such treatment??
Nothing really. There wasn't anything terribly wrong with Ippolit either. That was I think the whole point of the movie: It might be good, but is it really yours?
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors
Eastern Ukrainians who speak Russian as their native language universally stretch sounds like "Нууу яяя емууу сказааал".
??? :shock:
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
apart from feeling a bit sorry for the girl who got stood up on New Years Eve, and dumped in favour of the Leningrad girl. What did she do wrong to deserve such treatment??
In the beginning of the film, when she leaves Zhenya's flat and stands out, in the staircase already, he says to her, "But, you know, it's not nice that we won't go to Katanyans [=his friend's family]". And she answers, "They'll manage without!". If you only can hear her tone in that phrase... And how rude that sounds, the tone and the phrase itself... That's definitely not how Nadya ever could answer.
However, she behaves like a real fool when Zhenya calls her from Leningrad and tries to explain everything. Also, she is very tactless and stupid when she asks Nadya how old she is and afterwards: "Последний шанс?" (=is this your last chance?). That's very rude, and that's her exact intention.
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There's a newer sequel of that movie
...which people didn't like at all.
Just a trashy market product.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Yeah, that's right, I remember now. Ok that explains it.
This film was shown every year in Sweden in between Christmas and New Years - so I've seen it many times. The other Russian film that was shown was "Three Musketeers" as a marathon of all episodes (and then old Lion Witch and Wardrobe cartoon, Ivanhoe from the UK... and the best of Disney..!) Nostalgia!
I guess I won't be watching the sequel then if it's no good. I've got enough Russian films on my "to - watch" list...
What a treat!
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
And how rude that sounds, the tone and the phrase itself... That's definitely not how Nadya ever could answer.
Unfortunately, we don't know that for sure. I bet Galya sounded very nice the first time she and Eugene met... :unknown:
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Crocodile
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Originally Posted by Оля
And how rude that sounds, the tone and the phrase itself... That's definitely not how Nadya ever could answer.
Unfortunately, we don't know that for sure. I bet Galya sounded very nice the first time she and Eugene met... :unknown:
The main thing is not how someone "sounds", but "the inner content". In some phrases, it only can become apparent... I don't think that the first time Galya and Eugene met, she sounded nicer than in the whole first scene of the film. In only that scene, too, some of her character traits have been shown to a viewer. It's strange, if you don't see the difference between her "niceness" and Nadya's. :)
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Оля
The main thing is not how someone "sounds", but "the inner content".
They say you shouldn't judge anyone until you put yourself in their shoes... So, imagine yourself in the same situation. You have a BF who is a really nice guy, you like him a lot and he seems to like you too, but unfortunately he can't realize you're not getting any younger... So, you decide perhaps he just needs a gentle push. So, one gentle push after another, and you find your BF becoming a pushover. You sincerely hate that situation because you want your BF to be a man, take responsibility, and maybe take some of your responsibility as well. At some point you decide this chapter has to be finished somehow and choose the New Year's Eve to become a special night of just the two of you. Unfortunately, even though you send him the right messages all over the place, your BF even in his thirties acts like a little puppy and asks what about his mom being staying with you? You say as loudly as you can: "Your mom is great!!" having your fingers crossed hoping she would hear and understand because she's also a woman. And (Oh, thank God!) she's a bit offended, but she's with you! So, just after you thought the worst was over, that puppy of yours sheepishly asks: "And what about my friends family?" It's hard to tell how angry and frustrated would you be at that point because whatever special you prepared for tonight is about to drain down the toilet!! :evil: So, you try to control yourself and manage not to scream, but tell as polite as you can (but firm) that they would just do fine without both of you. And again, you're neither a bully, nor a control-freak. The only thing you ask your BF is to come back from his sauna in, say, 3 hours to start the night. What would you feel after 4, 5, 6 hours? I think you would be rather torn between the desire of killing him or calling all the dead houses in your city... So, in the middle of the night he turns out to be just fine (!) with a phone call from another city with another woman!!!! :spiteful: If you can avoid being rude at that point, you deserve all my respect. :wacko:
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
Interesting point Crocodile. From a modern perspective I agree with your point. Personally I am more likely to have acted like Galya, to be honest, although it's hard to say. But the film was made in the 1970s though, and feminist concerns were probably not on the agenda of the director. He basically had no sympathy for Galya's dilemma (which you outline).
In truth; Eugene himself had some shortcoming as a boyfriend: (It was a VERY long time since I saw this film, but as I recall it):
-Cannot say "no" to his friends.
-Possible alcohol problem.
-Lives with his mother despite being over 30.
-After just one night together he's crazy in love with another woman, despite planning to propose to Galya! With that in mind, how is he going to be able to be faithful in a marriage?
He might still be a great guy, but personally I'd consider these things to be "warning signs".
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
But the film was made in the 1970s though, and feminist concerns were probably not on the agenda of the director. He basically had no sympathy for Galya's dilemma (which you outline).
Maybe it's true. Not sure... I was just wondering why Оля despised Galya's "inner content" so much ...
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Originally Posted by Johanna
In truth; Eugene himself had some shortcoming as a boyfriend [...] He might still be a great guy, but personally I'd consider these things to be "warning signs".
Yes, BUT!!! He didn't act with Nadya that way!! He seemed rather determined, didn't he?
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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...It's hard to tell how angry and frustrated would you be at that point...
All what you described, was clear to me without your explanation. I know why she is angry. It's the same if someone stands in a shop queue and finally begins to curse and cry aloud that he is tired and they are all bastards who invented those queues. It's clear why the person is angry. Only not everyone would behave like that.
Also, when a woman begins to think "will he marry me, finally?", it means that LOVE somehow has been sidelined already. Maybe there was no even LOVE.
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If you can avoid being rude at that point, you deserve all my respect
Of course I can. Be sure. If I love a man, I'll hear him out, at least. Maybe that's an uncommon and outmoded behaviour.
And I would never insult some woman I don't even see in such a disgusting way ("Последний шанс?").
P.S.
However, I often see 'couples' (in life, in the streets, in transport) who have relations, and it's obvious that, pardon my French, they sleep with each other. And they probably really think they love each other. But often, the only one conversation I heard between them shows so much that I say to myself, "It's better not to have relations at all than have relations like that".
I think that people often just "have" their partners, I mean like they'd have a thing which they bought once and just use it and consider it as their "own". That's why Galya wants to kill him when he's not home at 12.00. He just MUST be there because he is her boyfriend and because she put on a new dress!!
That's the approximate way I see it...
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Оля
Maybe that's an uncommon and outmoded behaviour.
Maybe. But, if you really believe in what you said, I take my hat off to you.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Оля
That's why Galya wants to kill him when he's not home at 12.00. He just MUST be there because he is her boyfriend and because she put on a new dress!!
And maybe because he promised and she wants to count on him in life.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Crocodile
And maybe because he promised and she wants to count on him in life.
This sounds like a demagogy to me. Это общие слова. А есть конкретная ситуация. В конкретной ситуации люди не делают общих выводов, они бесятся/расстраиваются по конкретному поводу. Выводы они делают потом, когда ситуацию уже пережили.
And actually it's funny that Galya 'wants to count on him in life'. Ha ha ha. Does he look like that???? If she loves him as he is, it's okay, but if she 'counts on him in life' (or wants to), that means she wants to reform him. Why to reform someone who doesn't fit your ideas of an ideal man? It's better to find another one.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Оля
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Originally Posted by Crocodile
And maybe because he promised and she wants to count on him in life.
That sounds like a demagogy to me. Это общие слова. А есть конкретная ситуация. В конкретной ситуации люди не делают общих выводов, они бесятся/расстраиваются по конкретному поводу. Выводы они делают потом, когда ситуацию уже пережили.
Or when they have the similar situation over again.
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Originally Posted by Оля
Why to reform someone who doesn't fit your ideas of an ideal man? It's better to find another one.
Yeah... the old dilemma... Some people are more popular than others, I guess.
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Crocodile
Or when they have the similar situation over again.
Крокодильчик, ты хоть понимаешь, что когда женщина в очередной ситуации говорит о тебе "ну вот опять этот козёл, твою мать!.......", это как-то слабо смахивает на любовь? Нет, если тебя устраивают такого рода отношения - пожалуйста. Меня лично нет. Я не понимаю, как это может быть - "он козел, он меня сто раз уже достал, но я хочу за него замуж". Но похоже, многие мужчины с этим мирятся. Ты мне сейчас, возможно, станешь рассказывать, что "милые бранятся - только тешатся" и т.п. Понимаешь, браниться тоже можно по-разному. Если ты готов принять отношение "ах, этот урод/козел/сволочь... и т.п." за любовь - твоё дело. Только не надо пропагандировать, что это норма отношений мужчины и женщины, что так и должно быть.
И потом, дело не в том, что она ответила там про Катанянов и что именно ее возмутило. Дело в самом тоне этой ее фразы. Тон холодный и циничный. Там нет не только любви, но даже негодования. Там расчет - "я тебя на себе женю, и точка."
Re: Examples of Russian dialects?
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Originally Posted by Оля
Если ты готов принять отношение "ах, этот урод/козел/сволочь... и т.п." за любовь - твоё дело.
Да я, вроде, и не говорил такое. Ни сном ни духом, как говорится.
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Originally Posted by Оля
Только не надо пропагандировать, что это норма отношений мужчины и женщины, что так и должно быть.
И где же я такое пропагандировал? Зачем такой резкий тон? И к месту ли?
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Originally Posted by Оля
Дело в самом тоне этой ее фразы. Тон холодный и циничный. Там нет не только любви, но даже негодования. Там расчет - "я тебя на себе женю, и точка."
Последний раз я смотрел этот фильм довольно давно, поэтому настаивать не буду. Но тон - дело деликатное. И субъективное.
PS. А чего ты собственно так накинулась? Кто тебя укусил? Не нравится тебе Галя - и ладно. Ты считаешь, что Надя - образец для подражания? Пожалуйста. Хотя, как мне кажется, её образ в фильме раскрыт недостаточно. Возможно, чтобы больше подходить на роль положительной героини. Всё-таки фильм - не шедевр и с Гамлетом вряд ли сравнится. :tease:
