Thread: Dipthongs

My Russian text books put a lot of effort into explaining how to pronounce the Russian vowels а э ы о у, both in stressed and unstressed positions, and also what they sound like after soft consonants, ie as я е и ё ю. They fail to mention what these vowels sound like if you put a й after them.

So I am wondering, do all these combinations exist? ай эй ый ой уй яй ей ий ёй юй? Do they sound different in stressed and unstressed positions?

Originally Posted by rainbowworrier

My Russian text books put a lot of effort into explaining how to pronounce the Russian vowels а э ы о у, both in stressed and unstressed positions, and also what they sound like after soft consonants, ie as я е и ё ю. They fail to mention what these vowels sound like if you put a й after them.

After them? Maybe "before"?..

я = й + а
е = й + э
ё = й + о
ю = й + у

Originally Posted by rainbowworrier

They fail to mention what these vowels sound like if you put a й after them.

They sound the same or almost the same because vowels are like the syllable nuclei here.

So I am wondering, do all these combinations exist? ай эй ый ой уй яй ей ий ёй юй? Do they sound different in stressed and unstressed positions?

Almost every combination is possible if we take simple patterns.

I hardly imagine the use of them in the unstressed positions... If there are some, I think that they sound slightly different.

май May (month)
Эй! Hey!
ый normal masc. sg. nom. adjectival ending, always unstressed
бой battle, also normal masc. sg. nom. adjectival ending, always stressed
уй (the only word I can think of is unprintable!) может быть ещё есть суй! (сунуть)
ай-яй-яй
ей "to her", also fem sg. oblique adjectival ending
ий masc. sg. nom. adjectival ending, always unstressed
ёй (пожалуй нет слова такого рода)
Юй (Chinese name, otherwise does not occur in Russian words, I think.)
In Standard Russian the stressed vowels are /a e o i u/. The only unstressed vowels are /a i u/. These vowels have two spellings, depending on the preceding consonant: а/я э/е о/ё ы/и у/ю. Although the unstressed эеo remain spelled ЭЕО, they are pronounced generally as /i/ and /o/. For example экономика is /ikan

ёй:

свиньёй, попадьёй...

бадьёй
ладьёй
семьёй
роднёй

уй (the only word I can think of is unprintable!) может быть ещё есть суй! (сунуть)

дуй жуй рисуй не балуй

Юй (Chinese name, otherwise does not occur in Russian words, I think.)

Не плюй! Мама не горюй! дюйм

ай sounds like the vowel sound in buy, guy, why, shy
эй sounds the vowel sound in hey, gay, play
ой sounds like the vowel sound in boy, toy, troy
ый is almost the same as ы, the difference is not worth worrying about for a beginner.
ий is almost the same as и
уй is like the vowel sound in the French name Louis, or oo-ee

Originally Posted by TATY

ий is almost the same as и
уй is like the vowel sound in the French name Louis, or oo-ee

That's news to me!

What does unstressed ой sound like? Does it sound like ай?

Originally Posted by rainbowworrier

What does unstressed ой sound like? Does it sound like ай?

Yes. Unstressed о sounds like a, and unstressed ой sounds like ай.

(But уй doesn't sound like oo-ee, trust me! )

Originally Posted by Оля

...(But уй doesn't sound like oo-ee, trust me! )

Поверь мне, что многие звуки звучат по-разному для носителей разных языков.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Поверь мне, что многие звуки звучат по-разному для носителей разных языков.

Я верю, но все равно "уй" не звучит так! Если так слышит иностранец, это не значит, что всем остальным надо объяснять так, как слышит он. Я, например, никому не объясняю своими новоизобретёнными способами французскую фонетику, хотя я её тоже, может быть, "по-своему" слышу.

Originally Posted by TATY

ай sounds like the vowel sound in buy, guy, why, shy

Процитирую -
It is likely that speakers will make the second element of Russian diphthongs insufficiently close to resemble English diphthongs (e.g, [druzʲeɪ] instead of [druzʲej])

Originally Posted by vox05

Originally Posted by TATY

ай sounds like the vowel sound in buy, guy, why, shy

Процитирую -
It is likely that speakers will make the second element of Russian diphthongs insufficiently close to resemble English diphthongs (e.g, [druzʲeɪ] instead of [druzʲej])

This person is a beginner and the pronunciations I have are sufficient for a beginners' level. Most beginners' Russian books for native English speakers will give such explanations. A beginner is not going to sound like a native speaker straight away.

The most effective way to teach a student the sounds of a foreign language it to give approximate equivalents from their native language. When the student becomes more confident with the language they can perfect their accent and pronunciation at a later stage.

Really, you are just being a pedant.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by TATY

ий is almost the same as и
уй is like the vowel sound in the French name Louis, or oo-ee

That's news to me!

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1% ... 0%B8%D0%BA

The French pronunciation of the French name Louis is rendered phonetically in Russian as Луи. Obviously this is not the same as уй, as it has a final и instead of an й, but it is an aproximation.

By oo-ee, I meant the English sounds oo which is roughly Russian у, and the English sound ee, which is roughly и / й depending on the length.

If this is not correct, how would you simply and concisely explain the Russian combination уй to someone who has just started learning Russian?

Originally Posted by TATY

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BA

I didn't understand why did you give me this link. Do you really think I hear this French name for the first time?

Originally Posted by TATY

If this is not correct, how would you simply and concisely explain the Russian combination уй to someone who has just started learning Russian?

I'd say it is english "oo" + english "y" from say, buy, etc. So I'd say it is smth. about ooy. But not oo-ee.

And, by the way, I don't think that Louis in French is pronounced Луй. I watch French films, and I've heard this name many times, but it doesn't sound like Луй for me.

And й is not the same as и.
And what does "almost" mean? Who need this "almost"?
Й sounds like "y" in "buy", "say", "yes", or just like the German sound "j" (jetzt, jeder, jener, Junge).

Originally Posted by TATY

The most effective way to teach a student the sounds of a foreign language it to give approximate equivalents from their native language.

Like (i) in 'sheep' and 'ship' both resemble russian 'и'.

When the student becomes more confident with the language they can perfect their accent and pronunciation at a later stage.

Or can not.

Originally Posted by vox05

Originally Posted by TATY

The most effective way to teach a student the sounds of a foreign language it to give approximate equivalents from their native language.

Like (i) in 'sheep' and 'ship' both resemble russian 'и'.

When the student becomes more confident with the language they can perfect their accent and pronunciation at a later stage.

Or can not.

I don't know why you are still trying to argue your point, as I am stating a fact, that almost all Foreign Language learning books, teach the student how to pronounce the foreign language by using sounds from their native language.

Yes, some people can't ever develop good pronunciation in a foreign language, but that's not to say that it is because they were taught the sound system the wrong way.

Do you really think that using IPA with native English speakers, to try and teach them Russian sounds on Page 1 on a beginner's book would be a good idea? 90% of readers would give up by page 3.

http://learnrussian.elanguageschool.net ... w.php?id=1
http://www.homeenglish.ru/Lessons1.htm