Thread: Где

I'm confused as to how to pronounce this.

"Gdye"???

Mainly, how to pronounce гд...I'm not sure if that's possible (at least, for someone like me who's just beginning Russian and speaks English where there is no such sound).

Thanks in advance.

Like in the word "Baghdad"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56TwfvKf9Z8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1kbnhM35Vs
http://vv.nexus.org/vv/21/vv21_18.mp3

http://www.bards.ru/1ra/a_Vysockij_Vlad ... _17_let.ra )

Где твои семнадцать лет...

Большой Каретный (переулок)

Припев: Где твои семнадцать лет?
На Большом Каретном.
А где твои семнадцать бед?
На Большом Каретном.
А где твой чёрный пистолет?
На Большом Каретном.
А где тебя сегодня нет?
На Большом Каретном.

Помнишь ли, товарищ, этот дом?
Нет, не забываешь ты о нем.
Я скажу, что тот полжизни потерял,
Кто в Большом Каретном не бывал.
Еще бы, ведь

Припев.

Переименован он теперь,
Стало всё по новой там, верь не верь,
И все же, где б ты ни был, где ты не бредешь,
Нет-нет, да по Каретному пройдешь.
Еще бы, ведь

Припев.

Ah, that helps -_-;

So there is a slight 'ih' sound in between the g and d? Because when I was analyzing how I said Baghdad and the song, I thought I could hear slight 'ih' sounds.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Chibi

So there is a slight 'ih' sound in between the g and d? Because when I was analyzing how I said Baghdad and the song, I thought I could hear slight 'ih' sounds.

There has to be some sound in between, since the transition between the 'g' sound and the 'd' sound isn't seamless. This is different than Baghdad, which has a separation of syllables right in between the letters, while Где is all one syllable.

So yes, there is a slight 'ih' type sound in between. It's just for the sake of making the 'g' sound audible.

So technically, it is pronounced gihdye, with the 'ih' sound severely minimized. Think of saying 'gid' really, really fast.


(Disclaimer: I am really new to Russian. I've been casually studying reading for the past couple of weeks. If anything I say is inaccurate, please correct me.)

Originally Posted by cybersaga

Originally Posted by Chibi

So there is a slight 'ih' sound in between the g and d? Because when I was analyzing how I said Baghdad and the song, I thought I could hear slight 'ih' sounds.

There has to be some sound in between, since the transition between the 'g' sound and the 'd' sound isn't seamless. This is different than Baghdad, which has a separation of syllables right in between the letters, while Где is all one syllable.

So yes, there is a slight 'ih' type sound in between. It's just for the sake of making the 'g' sound audible.

So technically, it is pronounced gihdye, with the 'ih' sound severely minimized. Think of saying 'gid' really, really fast.

(Disclaimer: I am really new to Russian. I've been casually studying reading for the past couple of weeks. If anything I say is inaccurate, please correct me.)

I am a native Russian speaker. I kept listening to myself saying "где" and eventually begun to hear sound "ы". Almost soundless, but it is there for a smoother connection.

Лампада, Jeez, not you too! No, there is no vowel sound between Г and Д. I have seen hundreds of transcriptions of this word from dozens of dialects and the literary language, and NOT ONE of them has even the suggestion of a vowel between Г and Д. Native speakers, not Americanized Russians.

Just because we don't have it in English in initial position means you have to mangle Russian to say a simple word. How do you pronounce когда with a vowel between the г and д?? If anything, just drop the damn г in speech—— Де моя бутылка??

I hope you are not wanting to put a vowel after the first consonant in Мстислав or храбрый or тлеть because just we don't have words that start with consonants like that either!!

I am frustrated with this kind of question. Read your grammar book, listen to the tape/CD. Believe what the author writes. In this case there is only one vowel in где. If there is something strange happening, the author will let you know, like for ex. легко is pronounced as if if were лихк

I'm totally agreed with chaika. There is no vowel sound between гд. Just say the г sound a bit weaker and everything sounds ok: где-гДЕ, когда -КАгДА' or even КАДА', здравствуйте - зДРА'С-ТВУЙ-ТЕ or зДРАСЬТЕ...
btw, chaika, IMHO легко - лехко.

Thinking about it... I do not pronounce 'g' here.
Well, coming from Ukraine, I do not pronounce 'g' almost anywhere and rather say voiced 'h', but in regular speech I normally drop the 'h' in this word as well.

Originally Posted by chaika

Лампада, Jeez, not you too! No, there is no vowel sound between Г and Д. ...

I know I could've thought of a better answer. Let me try again. If we put aside "г" and "д" for a moment... Couldn't be the same question asked about prononciation of any consecutive consonants? E.g. table, please, cable, signal?

Originally Posted by JJ

btw, chaika, IMHO легко - лехко.

I say лихко. With 'е' it sounds unnatural.

chaika wrote:
Лампада, Jeez, not you too! No, there is no vowel sound between Г and Д. ...

Sometimes, in not normal but expressive speaking you could hear a vowel-like sound reminding of [ы].

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Originally Posted by JJ

btw, chaika, IMHO легко - лехко.

I say лихко. With 'е' it sounds unnatural.

MGIMO finished? Are you from Moscow or from some of "ah-speaking" regions? The "лихко" in the Middle Ural, I mean, sounds a bit wierd.

Originally Posted by JJ

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Originally Posted by JJ

btw, chaika, IMHO легко - лехко.

I say лихко. With 'е' it sounds unnatural.

MGIMO finished? Are you from Moscow or from some of "ah-speaking" regions? The "лихко" in the Middle Ural, I mean, sounds a bit wierd.

No, I'm from North-Western Siberia and live here nearly all my life. But Urals is no distance, I think.

That's why you can at times run into spellings like "гъдѣ" in old manuscripts.

Твердый знак ("ер") was used to denote this very reducted ы-like sound (and still does in Bulgarian AFAIK).

Originally Posted by Rtyom

I say лихко. With 'е' it sounds unnatural.

Как и все безударные гласные, в слове легко "е" звучит неопределённо. Что-то среднее между "и" и "е", но ближе к "и".

[quote=chaika]Лампада, Jeez, not you too! No, there is no vowel sound between Г and Д. I have seen hundreds of transcriptions of this word from dozens of dialects and the literary language, and NOT ONE of them has even the suggestion of a vowel between Г and Д. Native speakers, not Americanized Russians.

Just because we don't have it in English in initial position means you have to mangle Russian to say a simple word. How do you pronounce когда with a vowel between the г and д?? If anything, just drop the damn г in speech—— Де моя бутылка??

I hope you are not wanting to put a vowel after the first consonant in Мстислав or храбрый or тлеть because just we don't have words that start with consonants like that either!!

I am frustrated with this kind of question. Read your grammar book, listen to the tape/CD. Believe what the author writes. In this case there is only one vowel in где. If there is something strange happening, the author will let you know, like for ex. легко is pronounced as if if were лихк

Originally Posted by Lampada

Let me try again. If we put aside "г" and "д" for a moment... Couldn't be the same question asked about prononciation of any consecutive consonants? E.g. table, please, cable, signal?

English is weird like that. It's pronounced 'taybel' and 'caybel' for those two, so it's almost like the l and e switch places. Pl is a common sound in English, and it is possible to say it without vowels (although some ditzy girls will put an 'uh' sound between the p and l and accent the second syllable to suggest something is ridicuous: 'puh-LEASE!'). As for 'sign,' the g is silent (...go figure...), and is pronounced 'seyen' (eye as in the body parts you use to see).

Originally Posted by chaika

Native speakers, not Americanized Russians.

What's that supposed to mean? How an "Americanized Russian" is different from a "native speaker", if the mother tongue of both is Russian? If his first language is not Russian, then he is not Russian, is he?

adoc, I meant speech-wise, not heredity. When you move to live in a foreign country, you native accent takes a hit. In college I knew a Greek guy who after a year in the US said he was losing his native language. I have often heard people talk about going back to visit the family in Moscow or somewhere and have them comment on their American accent. That's what I meant by "Americanized."