Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
Imagine you borrowed $1 mil from the yakuza and in order to pay the debt you borrowed money from, say, an Italian mafiozi. Then you 'somehow' spend a weekend in Las Vegas and now you don't have any money. The only thing that is left is your house. Now both the mafiozi and yakuza come to your house and start arguing who's going to take it. Your continued well being is the last thing those two are worried about.
So the EU is the mafiosi and Russia is the yakuza and Ukraine is the "stupid" "victim".
Clever allegory. Took me a few seconds to get.

I don't know anything about how incompetent and/or corrupt Yanukovich and his party were. Or if he was affected by circumstances beyond his control and faced with an impossible task.

But I don't understand how a person goes from democratically elected and internationally respected leader, to dictator who people want to prosecute as a war criminal. There is something rotten.......

Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
It is clear, that they wanted the POWER, ASAP. What I don't get, why Yanukovich acted as he did.

What in particular did you have in mind? I thought this was so upsetting that I didn't watch it on the news...
I'm not defending him, but he had a full scale riot and revolution on his hands. The job of governments is to keep the public order, and they were totally out of control.

If he ordered "shoot-to-kill" then he should answer for that.
But look at the pictures of these people. They wanted a "war" and they got it

The thing that TOTALLY DISGUSTS me about this, is that this riots was cheered on by the EU and the USA. It was a mini Syria!

They deserve a dose of their own medicine. What if China stirred people up in the EU, so they took to Brussels and started smashing things up and setting things on fire? Then the Chinese leaders turn up to give the rioters cookies and hold speeches to motivate them. Anyone tried this in Washington DC and they'd be facing methods and weapons the Ukraine couldn't dream o!

If and when this happens in either the EU or the USA, they would probably react the same way, and they would totally condemn it.
It is such incredible double standards to openly support a revolution against a democratically elected leader in Europe, because they don't like who who he wants to take loans from, or negotiate trade union with.

The EU and USA have big contingency plans and annual exercises for how to disperse crowds, for example blank out mobiles, noises and smells that people can't tolerate, and a whole arsenal of non-lethal weapons. Particularly after "Occupy" and the London Riots.
Drone and satellites that can do facial recognition from space. Ukrainfe probably doesn't have this type of sophisticated equipment. But if you go out in the street and throw molotov cocktails, kidnap people and put buildings on fire, then surely you have to realise that you are taking a risk, possibly your own life.

I wonder if the EU and USA are going to turn a blind eye if these nazis execute Yanukovich on the spot, or hang him from a lamppost, as they are talking about. Trial in the Hague would be a FARSE. So he might have 88 innocent lives that could have been spared on his hands. How many do Obama have? Tony Blair for Iraq and Washington? Yanukovich is nothing compared with those.

And I know exactly how some in the USA and the EU regard Ukraine. I happened to work with an American woman just recently, who spent 7 years in Ukraine, working for a US international firm, according to her "teaching the Ukrainians how to run a business and do accountancy". Such arrogance! In this time she didn't manage to learn Russian or Ukrainian herself, and it's really insulting to suggest that there aren't people in Ukraine who know how to do accountancy, a. Everything was "wrong" about her flat, shopping in Kiev etc. Nevertheless she probably had a much better flat than most people in Kiev and the salary to get the best of the available shopping. I listened to so much of her "war stories" from living there, her dissing of Russia and Belarus and unfortunately with her being senior to me, I couldn't tell her my real view.

As for the EU, it's always been about getting EU brands in and taking over the markets and getting access to a cheap outsourcing labour force.


Please tell me that this baptist minister, Oleksandr Turtjynov, who is acting prime minister, was not trained in the USA? I didn't even know there were baptists in Ukraine - definitely the fruits of recent missionary efforts. I really like baptists and a strong Christian might be just what this situation needs. On the other hand, a lot of baptists on this continents are totally in bed with the USA.

And what's the situation with Ukrainian names? Do people have two versions of their names, a Ukrainian and a Russian? Western media confuses itself and believes it's talking about two different people - Mykola / Nikolai etc. The different ways to Romanize the name causes even more confusion.

Finally - my view: Just call it quits and split the country. This has been going on for over 20 years now. Can the people take any more of this now? Plus smaller nations are less interesting to manipulate - Ukraine's size is part of its curse. Do a referendum in Eastern Ukraine and find out if people want to be part of the Russian federation or a smaller independent nation.

Lots of European nations have split for various reasons. It's better than having a country where people are pulling in different directions and have different loyalties. That way, Western Ukraine, the nazis and the lack of money becomes the EUs problem. They'll be another Eastern European member like Romania.
Just another problem to add to the list. And let the East Ukrainians have an independent nation or merge with Russia. The EU made this bed, so now we can lay in it, I guess... And Western Ukraine would probably get on really well with Poland, the Baltics and Hungary.