Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Grechushkin undressed [...]
Let's pause right here. WHO told you that was Grechushkin? He himself (after some dose of special medication)? Or perhaps someone else (after the similar dose)?
WHAT MAKES YOU 100% CONFIDENT Grechushkin really had done all those things?
If you made a mistake you can release a prisoner, but you can't resurrect anyone. Period.
However, let's think about the justice a bit more. So, Ramil is saying his "9gr of lead" thing. Ok... but, wait a minute! Is that a just thing to do? Let's assume Grechushkin had really done that awful stuff. Then the only just thing to do would be to do exactly the same thing to him!! Wouldn't it? Why to advocate the 9gm of lead approach? Let's tie his hands behind his back, scotch tape a car battery to his stomach ... etc. Why don't we?
Re: Смертная казнь в России
The goal is to execute the prisoner, not to make him regret it. He wouldn't. Just like a white blood cell kills a virus and then disposes of it. It's a sanitation sort of thing.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
The goal is to execute the prisoner, not to make him regret it. He wouldn't. Just like a white blood cell kills a virus and then disposes of it. It's a sanitation sort of thing.
If so then why the 9gr of lead? Why not the euthanasia?
By the way, I hate the "sanitation" sort of explanation. Some people thought it's right to sanitize the world and make it free from the certain under-human individuals (Untermensch). I can't accept that.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Euthanasia is more expensive. There's also rope, but ropes tear. A bullet is the most effective, quickest and at the same time cheap way to execute a criminal.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Euthanasia is more expensive. There's also rope, but ropes tear. A bullet is the most effective, quickest and at the same time cheap way to execute a criminal.
Don't forget, you have to factor in the building and maintenance of a designated execution chamber with enough water and drainage to clean the splashes of blood. On the other hand, you could administer the euthanasia right in the prison cell. Also, according to http://www.animallaw.com/Humaneeuthanasia.htm Sodium Pentobarbital, which is the most cost-effective and overall least expensive of all euthanasia techniques, costs $2.88 including the cost of lethal injection, materials and labor. Is that cheap enough for your "sanitization?"
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Perhaps then you're right. Injection is better.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Perhaps then you're right. Injection is better.
Since you probably wouldn't want to waste a cemetery land on the "not humans" you would cremate them, did I get you right? If yes, I have a suggestion for you. In order to save money, why not to burn them alive?
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Perhaps then you're right. Injection is better.
Since you probably wouldn't want to waste a cemetery land on the "not humans" you would cremate them, did I get you right? If yes, I have a suggestion for you. In order to save money, why not to burn them alive?
This would make people who do the job very nerous. Cries etc. and the smell...
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
This would make people who do the job very nerous. Cries etc. and the smell...
There are ways to stop the cries and there should be no difference in smell when burning the live or dead bodies. About the nervousness ... well... it always takes some guts to kill. Also when it comes to the "9gr of the lead". But rest assured, each "non-human" would carry a "not a human" badge, so it should be easier, shouldn't it?
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
"Подсудимый Гречушкин раздел усыновленного ребенка Александра, связал ему руки сзади туловища, в районе живота скотчем привязал аккумуляторную батарею, затем поместил его в хозяйственную сумку, отвез к мосту через реку Пехорка и сбросил с моста в реку".
Grechushkin undressed his adopted son (3 yrs. old) Alexander, tied his hands behind his back, scotch taped a car battery to his stomach, put the boy in a bag and threw him off a bridge into the river.
I'd do the translation like this:
Подсудимый Гречушкин раздел своего трёхлетнего пасынка Сашу, связал ему руки сзади, примотал скотчем к животу автомобильный аккумулятор, затем поместил его в сумку, отвёз к мосту через Пехорку и сбросил в реку.
пасынок = adopted son (падчерица = adopted daughter)
Саша vs Александр - a short name is better in Russian when we speak about children.
связал руки сзади (set expression)
мотать vs связать the first is used most frequently when we speak about fixing smth with scotch-tape
аккумулятор = a rechargeable battery
сумка vs хозяйственная сумка. The latter is usually a bag one uses for everyday shopping. It's likely too small for one could put a 3 y.o child inside.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
The goal is to execute the prisoner, not to make him regret it. He wouldn't.
By the way, I hate the "sanitation" sort of explanation. Some people thought it's right to sanitize the world and make it free from the certain under-human individuals (Untermensch). I can't accept that.
The attribute 'under-human' suits nicely the people who are capable to do what the report is about.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Perhaps then you're right. Injection is better.
Some criminals may be healthy, so the society could make use of their organs. We cannot waste them. Execute 'em by taking out their hearts.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
The attribute 'under-human' suits nicely the people who are capable to do what the report is about.
Ok, so would that attribute also apply to the police officers who had actually done what the report was about, and then put the blame on the adopting father? Can you really say 100% that hadn't happened?
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
The attribute 'under-human' suits nicely the people who are capable to do what the report is about.
Ok, so would that attribute also apply to the police officers who had actually done what the report was about, and then put the blame on the adopting father? Can you really say 100% that hadn't happened?
1. I mean such crimes in general, not exactly the Grechushkin's case. He's still waiting for his justice.
2. If there were such officers I would be ok with calling them under-human too.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
I mean such crimes in general, not exactly the Grechushkin's case.
That's the whole problem. It will be real Grechushkins who you suggest to deprive of their organs. Not some abstract "criminals" or "non-humans". And those real people would remain humans until a legal process would rename them to the "under-humans". And should the legal process be 100% effective without leaving any doubt, I might agree with the executions. However, there's no way the 12 various people would be able to gain the supernatural powers so it's 100% clear what happened. Therefore, a room for the judicial mistake always remains. Wouldn't you think it's a good idea not to kill when in doubt?
Think about it this way. Say, you have a gun and you see someone dropping his adopted child into waters. Will you shoot him? Probably yes, because it's 100% clear. But, if you don't know what's in the bag (maybe it's a mannequin and a tape recording with screaming), you probably won't. Right?
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
The attribute 'under-human' suits nicely the people who are capable to do what the report is about.
Ok, so would that attribute also apply to the police officers who had actually done what the report was about, and then put the blame on the adopting father? Can you really say 100% that hadn't happened?
No, but that doesn't matter.
There's no 100% of anything in this life. A man cannot guarantee that he won't fall down from the stairs within the next 5 minutes or he won't eat something bad at dinner so what can we say about some more serious things? We are really helpless and powerless beings. Cattle that leaves justice on some higher being. Nevertheless, there are risks that must be taken. Say, some delay before the sentence is actually carried out (may be even up to several years) would be a compromise. There's an additional moment to the punishment since the anticipation of death is worse than death itself.
Besides, you keep repeating that stuff about 'judical errors' and I could agree that in some cases there's not enough evidence to be sure. This is why we have jury. They must be convinced in order to get the 'Guilty' verdict. But there are cases when the evidence is clear and there's your '100%'. Why should we spare these?
P.S. I won't shoot a man with a bag (even if it's crying). I'll try to stop him or jump after the bag. Then (if I'm sure) I'll kill the bastard.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
The attribute 'under-human' suits nicely the people who are capable to do what the report is about.
'Subhuman' is the correct English translation for 'untermensch'.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Besides, you keep repeating that stuff about 'judical errors' [...]
The teaching of Crocodile is omnipotent because it is correct. :yahoo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
This is why we have jury. They must be convinced in order to get the 'Guilty' verdict. But there are cases when the evidence is clear and there's your '100%'. Why should we spare these?
Can you give me an example where the "100%" is there? Also, get real, the arbitrary 12 jury-duty people would be sleeping through the most of the hearings. They would take the advice of the judge before they go to form their verdict and that's all. Also, I highly doubt there would be much legal defense in case of Grechushkin.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by starrysky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
The attribute 'under-human' suits nicely the people who are capable to do what the report is about.
'Subhuman' is the correct English translation for 'untermensch'.
Thank you - I stay corrected.
Re: Смертная казнь в России
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Besides, you keep repeating that stuff about 'judical errors' [...]
The teaching of Crocodile is omnipotent because it is correct.
How many divisions does Crocodile have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Also, I highly doubt there would be much legal defense in case of Grechushkin.
We don't have enough information to make a judgement on this.
