The Ukraine crisis: John Kerry and Nato must calm down and back off
That's a bit unexpected.
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The Ukraine crisis: John Kerry and Nato must calm down and back off
That's a bit unexpected.
Yeah, I know, it was in my original post that I deleted! Sorry I caused even more distraction by deleting the post. Go on with the Ukraine discussion! :-) in Russian......Quote:
Originally Posted by Suobig
Минздрав не рекомендует использование виртуалок на hardware нашего с вами года выпуска. Честно говоря, я не даже не видел их в продаже, хотя некоторые спецслужбы, по слухам, ведут исследования в направлении "фантомных паразитных личностей". Но я не настолько крутой хэккер, чтобы экспериментировать.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Исходники первых версий доступны строго по Столлману, так что если вас не устраивают проприетарные форки, используйте любые доступные, коих, слава богу, выше крыши. Буддизм вообще изначально распределенная и свободная система, а ее проприетарная версия далека по популярности от свободных. Для Христианства семейство свободных решений отфорчилось после серии антимонопольных процессов еще в 16 веке. Они менее стабильны, но существенно более производительны и весьма популярны в наиболее развитых странах Европы и США. Ислам же предложил свое децентрализованное решение с открытым кодом в 18 веке и сейчас оно завоевывает все большее количество пользователей.Quote:
Во-первых, заметь, что код всех этих осей был в открытом доступе очень и очень давно, а с тех пор эксклюзивные права на релиз были куплены различными кристально чистыми индивидуумами, пекущимися денно и нощно лишь об общем благе, а код закрыт правами на интеллектуальную собственность. Во-вторых, архитектура этих мастдаек была давным-давно переписана для большей совместимости с централизованно-ориентированными пакетными приложениями.
Да, там есть драйверы и они тащемта регулярно обновляются, но в децентрализованной сети всё это страшно глючит, ограничивая выбор пользователя до, практически, минимума утилит, заботливо вшитых разработчиком, но имеющих бедный интерфейс и ужасную производительность. В третьих, опять-таки из-за закрытости кода, безопасность твоей работы висит на честном слове разработчиков.
Я считаю, что основным требованием к оси должна стать возможность контроля за работой приложений и возможность их полного удаления. Вместо этого, перечисленные тобой мастдайки позволяют установку новых приложений лишь из бедного магазина приложений, полностью контролируемого дистрибьютером. И это агрессивно рекламируется пользователям как фича, гарантирующая полную безопасность. И думать как работает система (ака критически мыслить) при этом вообще не надо.
Yeah that's proper journalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suobig
Remember that this is the paper that Snowden used for his revelations. And Assange.
It's British and it used to be "old" labour, more or less social democrat. Not sure how to define it today. If you want a British paper that's trying to see the bigger picture, it's the Independent or Guardian, personally I prefer the Independent because they have less politically correct nonsense and is more international than the Guardian. Independent was bought by a Russian. Forgot the name but it's the same person who owns the Новая газета paper in Russia. Actually I think he's called Lebedev.
Obviously Russia should be scrutinized for this. Bu if you are realistic, there is certainly no reason to panic or over-react.
Saw in Swedish papers, they are adding emergency funds to the defense budget because of this. That's laughable, for goodness sakes! It's 20 years to late to build any kind of defense at all against Russia, plus it's not even needed for f-cks sake! What a ridiculous waste of money.
Since Sweden buys 60% of its oil from Russia, all that Russia would need to do, would be to turn off the pipeline or stop the tanker, and then they could dictate their terms.
The best "defense" against Russia is to do business with it, learn the language and stop thinking that Russia's internal affairs is our business. And try to snap out of propaganda mode. In the last 10 years, Russia has proven beyond doubts that it is loyal to it's allies, reasonable to negotiate with and not outwardly aggressive. Compare with the record of the USA. There is no need to increase any defense budget in Northern Europe because of events in Ukraine, that's a one-off unique situation!
Mark my words though - there is a new kind of Cold War on the horizon.
It's good for business - they want it.
Guardian is an extreme leftist newspaper. They're bloody commies. So that's not unexpected. They quite often support Russian cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suobig
Новые фишки всё ещё выставляются на стол. Фишки уже совсем пустые. Strong negotiation skills..Quote:
Originally Posted by bbc
What are you talking about!! They are not "commies" they are Labour, if even that. Intelligent and educated people read that paper. I think you must have been reading too many comments by certain people posting here recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
If they sometimes support Russia, it's probably because not everything Russia does is "evil".
Besides, they are really angry with Russia about things like the "gay propaganda laws, Pussy Riot etc.
And Russia is not Commie either, so there is no natural connection even if that had been their inclination.
Last I heard, Putin was a kind of social conservative nationalist. Hardly a communist. If they were communists they should support Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela - which they hardly even pay any notice to.
But, Hanna, dear, that's exactly what makes them bloody commies! :D Every civilized man in the world should know that Russia is PRIME EVIL populated by monsters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Oh ok :beer:
haha, sorry I'm a bit slow sometimes.
I got a headache because I really wanted to read It-Ogos posts and understand his position. But you are not completely committing to one view or another are you?
Is it hard to make up your mind, or do you just feel resigned and despairing in general?
I'm also trying to figure out what Lampada thinks about all this and I think I have an idea based on all the pictures and links she posted. Crocodile as well.
One thing worth noticing about this, is that 2014 shows that Russia is officially back in the game after 20 years.
Syria success, Olympics, and now this, whatever it is.
Krim, with all its Russian history, back in Russian hands. Or....?!
But a new Russia
With less lofty ideology.... less territory....
More high tech, more oil and gas, more conservative values and more corruption and oligarchs.
I think Europe needs Russia for the balance though.
The USA was behaving more and more like a spoiled child, stuffing himself with icecream, throwing his toys around and terrorizing everyone who doesn't give in to his whims. "I want cheap oil", "Everybody must think as I do, or else!", Playing with his toy soldiers where such playing ought not be allowed. Nato "exercises" in places where it just provokes people and makes conflicts worse. There has been nobody to reign in the USA and properly keep tabs on it, for 20 years. In the meantime then USA is a danger not only to others, but also to itself - just look at the state of internal affairs in the USA.
EU was like the lame parent who let the toddler carry on his insane reign of terror and did not have anything to put up - no confidence, to skills, insufficient authority and experience.
The UK is like the little brother who cheers his naughty brother on and makes him even worse.
But Russia is like the more experienced adult who can actually play this game. Was always told at Uni how sharp Russia's diplomats are, and it's true. Things would be 1000 times worse in Syria if not for Russia, and I hope Russia will use its influence for good.
I would feel a lot more positive about the new strong Russia if it wasn't so darn corrupt and had the gangster oligarchs pulling strings behind the scenes.
Sorry for your headache. My position in a short: before last few days it was rather pro-Russia. Now it is strongly anti-Russia and I fight myself for not making it too personal towards any Russian citizen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
PS Thanks for the patience to my interlocutors.
А в это время на яхте Чёрная Каракатица:
zyalt: В Симферополе все спокойно
zyalt: Важное мнение моей бабушки про Украину
:)
Вежливость захватывает города. В Севастополе в три раза снизилось количество преступлений
Инфа 100%?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Честные блоггеры лгать не будут! :D
Санкции со стороны США в отношении российских госструктур вынудят Россию признать невозможность возврата кредитов американским банкам. Об этом заявил советник президента России Сергей Глазьев, передает РИА Новости <http://www.ria.ru/> .
По его словам, санкции являются обоюдоострым оружием, и если в США будут заморожены российские активы, то и пассивы организаций РФ в долларах также будут заморожены. Это, как отметил Глазьев, приведет к тому, что банки и предприятия из РФ не будут возвращать займы американским партнерам.
Глазьев добавил, что если американские власти заморозят счета российских предприятий и граждан, правительство России будет рекомендовать всем продавать казначейские обязательства Соединенных Штатов. Советник президента подчеркнул, что Россия является держателем американских гособлигаций более чем на 200 миллиардов долларов.
Также Глазьев отметил, что если США применят в отношении страны санкции, российская сторона должна будет создать свою расчетно-платежную систему и уйти из доллара в другие валюты. «У нас прекрасные торгово-экономические отношения с нашими партнерами на Востоке и на Юге, и мы найдем способ не только обнулить нашу финансовую зависимость от США, но и выйдем из этих санкций с большой выгодой для себя», — заявил он. Глазьев предупредил, что попытка ввести санкции в отношении России «обернется крахом для финансовой системы США, который повлечет прекращение доминирования США в мировой финансовой системе».
Хм, неужели мои мечты сбудутся и Россия выйдет из доллара?!
I saw on RT, that the new "elected" leaders in Ukraine are rich oligarchs who all appear on the top 10 list of richest people in Ukraine.
Seriously? This just seems like more of the same.
They also showed the houses of Julia Timoshenko and some of her allies that I don't know. She's rich as a goblin. Particularly not a relatively poorly off country.
In my opinion, such people are NOT credible as leaders of a country. Whether it's Ukraine, Russia, USA, Italy or France.
People who become politicians should come from regular backgrounds as much as possible, be elected in a process that does not require money or sponsorship to participate, or because of specialist skills.
I seriously DOUBT that a bunch of oligarchs will bring any meaningful improvement to regular people in Ukraine.
Another thing that Western media is unaware of, or just ignoring, is Crimea's historical ties with Russia, and that it's mostly a fluke that it belongs to Ukraine.
And that Russia are paying millions to Ukraine to keep a base there.
It's not even mentioned.
And as or RT - they write it off as Russian propaganda.
I am going to stop following this now. The hypocrisy in Western media is driving me crazy,
I just hope things will work out for the Ukrainian people.
Nah, Attachment 939 not impressed. Не тот размах.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Юля олигархом была и до выхода в публичную политику, ЕМНИП. Как и Порошенко. Кличку надо форму поддерживать - по этажам бегать, люстры выжимать. У прочих-сравнительно скромненько.
И боюсь, что у нас выбора пока нет - без личной крепости любого политика быстро съедят. Или же нужен Робеспьер с соответствующими методами. Кстати не факт, что это все персональное имущество, многое может принадлежать партии, то есть уйдет потом не к родственникам, а к соратникам. Впрочем, не буду гадать. Теперь-то до этих деятелей руки у общества долго не дойдут, что печально.
Well, you don't really follow the situation, don't you? The government is temporary, not elected, the elections are coming soon, Julia don't enter the temporary government and there is no way in contemporary Ukraine to be poor and independent in the same time. It is still to be made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
You feel ready for conclusions?
BTW if you don't accept legitimity of even moderately rich people and money-consuming elections, than you should not accept legitimity of any USA president.
No, I have no conclusions, I am trying to understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
And I have zero admiration for "democracy" in the USA. And some parts of Europe. It's a joke, and media is in on it.
Whatever will raise living standards for Ukrainians across the country, and not discriminate anyone, is fine by me.
I don't care if it's nationalists, communists, Russia or EU/USA puppets.
As long as it works, and provides stability and improved living conditions for the majority. Not just a clique at the top of society.
But don't trust the EU, please. The EU looks after its own, primarily Northwestern Europe. And runs the errands of the USA. Just because they come and talk on the Maidan and hand out cookies doesn't mean they genuinely care about the lives of regular people in Ukraine. They care about how EU busineses can make money in and out of Ukraine, and about opposing Russia. If it helps some Ukrainians then would be happy with that, but it's not their main motivation.
I'm aware Timoshenko is not in the government. Last I heard she flew to Germany to be treated for some illness after being released from prison. I think she'll want to continue in politics though, she seems very passionate. I know she was accused of corruption, but I don't know if it's true, and what exactly her politics is.
Well, after just listening Putin's speech I must agree with Merkel's statement that he has lost a touch with reality. Despite he mostly told things I can agree with, he desided to play fool with "Crimean self-defence forces". Also those childish excuses "Look what USA did in Serbia, Iraq and Libya!". Damn, I'm ashamed of his actions.:sad:
I caught a bit of it. I think he was being his usual self. Some of it right, some of it funny/showy and some just cryptical or nonsensical. Plus a slight air of superiority, he thinks he's about 10 times smarter than the journalists, and it shows.....
But according to him, NOTHING has happened from a Russian perspective, and Russia will not annex or otherwise take over Crimea. He said:
- No Russian forces crossed any borders apart from soldiers legitimately transiting to the Sevastopol base according to the contract.
- The number of Russian solders on Crimea is within the terms of the contract for the base....
- Definitely no tanks involved, and
- any action at the border with Ukraine was pure co-incidence due to a random military exercise.... yes, sure... what are the odds of that.
- He denied any knowledge of the special forces type soldiers with "no insignia" that turned up in Crimea and said that anyone can buy a uniform in a shop. Too silly! He should have just said "Unable to comment".
I totally believed it when European media they said Russia was sending soldiers to Krim.
He took what he wanted to, the rest is a diplomacy: I know that I lie and you know that I lie but you can pretend to believe me and keep your face. This kind of game is always payed at all levels but usually not so bluntly. Surprizingly I have a feeling that some time ago he was sequentially avoiding direct lie even in public statements. Now he abandoned that manner. Probably he believes that won something really important. I don't see what exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
I don't understand why you say he lost touch with reality? I think he's being the same as he always is. A bit weird but with some punchlines here and there. Avoiding all difficult questions, like politicians always do.
Losing touch with reality would be saying "Yippi, finally a hafway legitimate chance to get Crimea back, let's go and "liberate" it and to heck with the West and lunatics in Kiev... and let's pick up a few cities in West Ukraine on the way there."
That's essentially what the Western media is portraying that he did, even though it actually hasn't happened.
Maybe I am less critical of him because I don't have to live in a country ruled by him... or because I like some aspects of his style.
Because as far I remember it's the first time he gave order that directly contradicts with international laws (to surround and disarm Ukrainian military bases in Crimea). Also direct lie about it was done by "Crimean self-defence forces". After doing this he has no moral right to say that Russian government always follow international laws and agreements. What a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Why should he confess when noone forces him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
He is politician, he's not a priest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
Like there's any proof that he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
He is supreme commander of Russian military forces. "The polite armed guys" obviously belong to Russian military. No way any military commander can take such actions without highest order. Who are they? Some private contract army? I can understand the point why he is doing this. USA and European politicans acts with no less hypocrisy when talking about "peaceful protesters", denouncing the agreement that were signed by Polish, French and German foreign ministers and thousand other things. Putin acts like "it's a game of lies that can be played from both sides". The grave difference is that from Russian side there is direct military involvement and seems like Putin don't understand it's not the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxljgR8oJfs&sns=fb
Оскандалился таки Путин в полной мере. Стыдно за него.
Чья бы корова мычала, а вот Геннадия Викторовича бы молчала:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Quote:
Геннадий Балашов в своем интервью отметил, что революция в Украине это тренировка для революции в России по сбросу диктаторского режима Владимира Путина.
Bullshit. I think what Hanna quotes is right, in this case. I read the same info from RT. I don't trust it fully as a source but the facts are these Ukrainian 'businessmen' are more of the same. They have a Jewish central banker as interim PM. Do you think these personnel in the Government will change much after an 'election?' Didn't you listen to the Nuland recording? They already decided who they want or don't care for (i.e. smaller governor or other appointee positions that are insignificant to them). Then, they pacify the electorate with 15-30 or whatever amount they choose-billion dollar IMF loan and promises of jobs and BS, BS and more BS.... same shit as before but a different pile.Quote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
I'm very disappointed that Ukrainians haven't seen through this but I guess when you are already oppressed and are poor for a long time, it's easy to turn screws and manipulate things.
"BTW if you don't accept legitimity of even moderately rich people and money-consuming elections, than you should not accept legitimity of any USA president."
Many Americans know there is a problem about that. Also, they often criticize lobbies and other intrusive operations. So, that is the point. This is going to be yet another corrupt and shady 'democracy.' Ukraine is not independent, STILL.
Не, раз вы не унимаетесь, тогда вот вам тоже порция:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfzMnP3ilcI
Lol, Гоблин красавчик. Очень красиво всё разложил по полочкам. Я бы только ещё ткнул носом в дерьмо Российский МИД и СВР, за то что прокакали ситуацию на Украине.
He understands everything.The reality is as follows: Putin is driven by global perspective as the gatherer of the Russian lands and his logic is very close to the maxim “the end justifies the means”. Laws, sanctions, isolation, etc. are all temporary things, but the Crimea is to be Russian for generations to come. So, people, economy, army are just chess pieces in the game and really don’t matter too much. I can probably quote some nice Nekrasov’s lines to show what we should expect.Quote:
Putin acts like "it's a game of lies that can be played from both sides". The grave difference is that from Russian side there is direct military involvement and seems like Putin don't understand it's not the same thing.
[Pусский народ]
Вынесет все - и широкую, ясную
Грудью дорогу проложит себе.
Жаль только - жить в эту пору прекрасную
Уж не придется - ни мне, ни тебе....
:D
Well... there is so much controversy surrounding the crisis.. I can only serve my personal opinion, so please add the missing "IMHO" wherever missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
First, if asked with whom I side: Ukraine of Russia, I would say I side with both or neither, since I believe there is no fundamental issue between Russia and Ukraine. How come? I believe there is a fundamental economical issue between Russia and EU and there is a fundamental military issue between Russia and NATO. And Ukraine has accidently become a battlefield. Military-wise, Russia cannot afford Ukraine becoming a NATO member. It is rightly assumed by Russia that after Ukraine becoming a EU member, the next very logical step for Ukraine would be joining NATO.
Here's why. Ukraine consists of three major regions: the Western Ukraine, the Eastern Ukraine, and the Crimea. Each of those regions are geographically, historically, culturally, economically, and to some extent ethnically are distinct entities. Among the three, the Crimea is the least influential and virtually has no say in Ukrainian affairs. The Eastern and the Western regions like each other like a cat and a dog. The only reason they are together is the strong common fear of Russia - the political, cultural, and economical fear to become yet again just a province or a dominion of Russia. Today Ukrainians feel like they're the first-class citizens of their own country, and they felt they were second-class citizens when they were part of Russia. As a result, a typical fight between the Western and the Eastern regions would sum up in something like: "[...] and it is so great we are not in Russia where there is no A, B, and C, so we can freely do X, Y, and Z; something that Russian citizens are being deprived of! Poor Russians.. they must be envying us right now.. they just can't admit it because of their unfulfilled imperial ambitions!"
And now about the imperial ambitions. Both Western and Eastern Ukraine unite when it comes to theirimperialrelationship with Crimea. On a paper, Crimea has a proud status of "Autonomous Republic", so Crimea has their own Parliament, Government, flag, and anthem. In reality, the power of all those proud Parliament and Government is just enough to elect, say, a teacher of the year, or make a decision whether to improve the plumbing between two cities this year or next year.. At most, they have a power of a municipality. And, obviously, they would very much be delighted to get more power. What for?
For example, to sort out the legal issues related to the illegitimate seizures of the public real estate and converting it to the private property by some Crimean Tatars. Everybody agrees it is illegal, however neither the Crimean courts, nor the proud Parliament and Government could do anything about that. Only the power of Kiev could enforce the law in Crimea. The issue remains in active status for decades and Kiev deliberately does not want to take any legal actions against the Crimean Tatars. Why?
Because, the Crimea is mostly populated by Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians. Crimean Tatars, once the native people of Crimea, were deported en mass in 1944 and were only allowed to come back in 1991. Only about half of the Crimean Tatars repatriated from the Central Asia, and those were politically active individuals determined to resettle and fight all the obstacles [in the form of the aforementioned Russian and Ukrainians]. The central power in Kiev deliberately dimishes the power of Crimeans by the old 'divide and conquer' principle: the Crimean Tatars are minority and are no danger to the Ukrainians affairs, and the Tatars are excellent tool of battling any 'Russian' in Crimea.
For example, if a couple of Russians collect some money and build a memorial cross, immediately thousands of Crimean Tatars gather to demolish that cross and engage in the physical fight with Russians. Eventually, the [now ill-famed] Berkut groups are called to beat Russians [and restore the order].
Another reason Crimeans en mass are not happy to be with Ukraine is the so-called 'Ukrainization' - the enforcement of Ukrainian language as the only official language. The only rationale given to the Russian-speaking communities is something like: "What a shame! You can't learn a language of the country you live in? If you're living in France, study French," totally ingoring the fact that people were born here and never left their homeland to start with, and the new state with the new rules fell upon them forcefully. Why is that a problem to recognize Russian as a second official language of Ukraine is a mystery to me. There are many countries in the world where more than one official language is recognized and that promotes the tolerance between the various ethnic groups. No explanation is given except for the cultural fear of Russia: it is assumed that people would stop speaking Ukrainian if Russian becomes the second language.
That was a background which is necessary to understand the recent events.
So, recently there has been two rude attempts to interfere in the interior Ukrainian politics.
First, the sudden financial sanctions imposed by the EU against the selected individuals (whom the EU unilaterally made responsible for the bloodshed in Kiev) caused the technicall collapse of the Ukrainian government and enforced locally by the 'self-defence forces'. Among the rest, the temporary government declared the legitimacy of the ideological purges and the legal prosecution of whoever was involved with the previous 'criminal' power. And the roster of those 'whoever' was kindly supplied by the 'self-defence forces' - it was peacefully floating near the vacated President residence. Alas, not all documents were saved, some were burned and could not be recovered. Obviously, some pages of the saved documents were missing (=drowned or destroyed by water), but the other documents were perfectly intact and the roster of criminals to be purged was ready. Obviously, if that roster was, by a pure accident, incomplete, theoretically a dozen or more pages could be added (but they should have been put into water for a couple of minutes first, just to become more authentic) with little effort. Victoria to the Western Ukraine and the EU (and NATO just a few year later)! And whilst the country was unsure what is going on and what is going to happen next, the Crimean Tatars turned (thousands of them!) to be very supportive of the 'new government' right away. Right away were they demanding the dissmissal of the present Crimean Government and the Parliament (and demostrating their determination to use the force if necessary), asking only one small thing in return for their selfless democratic support - a better represenation of Crimean Tatars in the Crimean Parliament. (SURPRIZE!) The first and obvious consequence of that, should that better representation happen, would obviously be the legalization of the illegal land seizures. (O_o..)
Then, the second rude attempt to interfere in the interior Ukrainian politics had occured - the occupation of Crimea by the untagged uniformed armed forces. The order was restored right away in Crimea and the Tatars became as peaceful and as politically unengaged as possible. And it was obvious right from the start those armed forces are Russian, so why the masquarade? Because, there is HUGE difference between the OCCUPATION and the ANNEXATION according to the international law. (Say 'Hi' to Israel and their practices.) Russian forces in Crimea are not there to stay, but to leave restoring the previous balance of power between the Eastern and the Western regions, keeping the EU and NATO away, and not letting the bloodshed in Crimea. Yes, the potential bloodshed is not from the legendary Bandera forces, but from the very real Crimean Tatars with the approval from the 'renewed and cleansed' central power from Kiev. Where would be Berkut to stop the violence in Crimea?
Now, both Russia and EU/US are throwing as many pieces as they can on the negotiation table. There should be as many as possible just to be able to exchange piece for piece and hopefully gain something in the end.. Strong negotiation skills, yay!
So, I think for an extra week or so there would be more pieces put on the table and in the subsequent two weeks the balance of power would be restored to what it was.
Hmm.. how was I able to put down so many letters? :sorry:
При том, что Гоблина вряд ли можно рекомендовать кому бы то ни было в качестве морального или интеллектуального авторитета, мне представляется что он не так прост, как кажется, и основным содержанием его выступлений (как и, например, пресловутого мистера Фримена) является сценический образ "дятел в белом", а отнюдь не то, что по форме может показаться "мнением" или "анализом". В самом деле, во все свои полчаса он ухитрился не озвучить вообще ни одного намека на что-либо оригинальное, как если бы старательно этого избегал. Этот его сценический образ, фактически, является пародией на мировоззрение 95%российскпостсоветской (каюсь, сам грешен) "думающей прослойки" и примкнувших к ней пользователей сетевых устройств. Мировоззрение такое: "я - самодостаточная мыслящая личность, не подверженная пропаганде, и знаю, что все является дерьмом. Я в этом дерьме разбираюсь и имею компетентное резко негативное мнение по любому из его сортов, однако в тактильный контакт не вступаю, а нахожусь сверху весь в белом". Это мировоззрение избавляет от проработки собственных нравственных оценок, заменяя их на универсальный шаблон, дает неповторимое чувство собственной значимости, но не помогает на практическом уровне ориентироваться в чем бы то ни было, исключает носителя из любой социальной активности и, при достаточно широкой распространенности, делает общество импотентным.
Лермонтов - наше все++.
Крок, TL;DR. Есть в твоем выступлении что-то, что я не охватил своей тирадой?
Ну, я уже попросил прощение за многабукаф соответствующим смайликом. Я писал ответ для Ханны, у которой совсем нет контекста, остальным мой рулон вряд ли покажется чем-то заслуживающим внимания. Дисклеймер имеется.Quote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
Трудно сказать.. Я уже тут на форуме 100500 раз высказывал своё убеждение, что все мы - жертвы промывания мозгов, и рептилии ничуть не исключение из правила. Ханна спросила моё представление о ситуации, я ответил. Дисклеймер честно написал. Думаешь, Ханна воспримет моё мнение как руководство к действию? До сих пор она вообще никогда со мной не соглашалась. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
Нравственных оценок? Ты издеваешься или серьёзно? И кто же в этой истории поступил нравственно? Может, те, кто бутылки с зажигательной смесью бросали в простых 18-летних парней из Беркута? Вот Комаровский выступает и говорит про 18-летних ребят. А кто же такие Беркут? Не те ли, кого также растили с учётом рекомендаций Комаровского? КакаяQuote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
нахтам у вас нравственность происходит?
/* Уполз перечитывать "По ком звонит колокол" в поисках нравственных оценок.. */
При чем здесь "у нас"? Нравственность - в глазах смотрящего. А результат должен быть - "кто виноват и что делать лично тебе" или на крайняк "что бы сделал лично ты".Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
А насчет беркута - я согласен. Большей частью просто выполняли свой долг. Тем паче, что снайперы, действительно, вряд ли были беркутовские, как и убийства с вывозами. Но я и не думаю, что им грозит что-то более серьезное, чем расформирование. Никто их на фонарях развешивать и не собирался и не собирается. Покричат и успокоятся. Не Россия-съ. Даже не факт, что должностные льготы и стаж отберут. Если и будут дела то конкретные - типа превышение тем, кто задержанного раздел догола, гонял по снегу и записывал это на видео.
Ладно, кто там кого гасил на Майдане оставим для следствия (надеюсь, что оно будет объективным).
По факту, скажите, законы против русского языка принимались или нет? "Москалей на ножи" переодетые русские провокаторы кричали? Я готов охотно поверить, что на майдане были и т. н. "вменяемые" люди. Но уж простите, с теми, кто принимал подобные законы, кто на заседание Рады с автоматом приходит, кто кричит "кого угодно на ножи", я не то что на одну площадь не выйду, я в одном поле, простите посрать не сяду.
Истерию, которая поднялась после этого в России, можно очень даже понять. Вон в Москве в 2011 году тоже прозападные либерасты на марш вместе с нациками вышли. Ничего так, органично толпа смотрелась.
