Thread: Думские выборы 2011

Originally Posted by Ramil

It's bad because it stagnates

Well, that's not fair to hate the stagnation, but at the same time to praise the stability. Bazil was saying people are nostalgic about the stagnation period of the Soviet Union, but it stagnated, so people wanted the change. O my, people are never happy!

Originally Posted by Ramil

1/3 of population lives below the 'poverty level'

Have you ever heard of the collectivization or a war? If you think the situation is bad, things could always be much worse.

Originally Posted by Ramil

And 90s ended 11 years ago. Some things are already forgotten.

How ungrateful! People forgot about the 90s, forgot about the 80s, forgot about the 70s, about the 60s, about the 30s, 20s, and 10s. We need to introduce the history lessons in schools.

Originally Posted by Ramil

You didn't read my post - I want political struggle be confined in Duma that's all. The alternative is to arrange it on the streets.

The 90s were famous, in part, for the [political] struggle being conveyed on the streets. People wanted the stability and being able to walk safely on the streets. They got that. The opposition is under control. Now, you want the struggle again? Do you want the reporters shot on the streets again (while saying their death relates to some criminal activity)? The prominent political opposition figures who tried to play by the rules (Rochlin, Lebed, etc.) were killed - do you want that phenomena to repeat? Do you want the news being full of the dirt from the hired reporters again? Why do you want the struggle in Duma? Do you think what happens in Duma is confined to Duma?

Originally Posted by Ramil

Communists say they represent 'ordinary people' - let them defend their followers by proposing better laws and give them some seats in the government and we'll see.

What laws are you talking about? Who is living by the laws in the RF today? The courts accept bribes on a regular basis. The criminals got the power. Using your terminology, the politicians are the puppets. Do you think that if Zuganov would splash a glass of juice onto Putin that would restore the well-being throughout the state?

Originally Posted by Ramil

You keep comparing the moden world with medieval terms.

The 18th century is a way past the medieval times. My example was based on the French Revolution (as it served the mental foundation for the later revolutions).

Originally Posted by Ramil

The world is more complex now. It's even more complex than it was 30 years ago. And as recent examples show - you can destabilize a perfectly stable society in a matter of few weeks if you really want to.

Don't underestimate the political complexity of the medieval times ... Ok, so it is more complex in a sense there are more direct relations between the entities, yes. But, the foundation is still the same. People will not get onto the streets all of a sudden just because someone had twitted "let's go, bros!" Let's consider the relatively recent events in Moscow (aka "soccer fans vs the police"). What would the more prominent presence of CPRF in Duma do in that case? Would Zuganov climb an IFV and say through the loudspeaker: "Guys, calm down! We are the people's party and we have more representation in Duma now! So, go home peacefully and we will sort all the issues through the political dialogue!" Could you imagine that working?

In result almost all former soviet plants and factories turned into warehouses now (where real estate costs something) or look very much like Chernobyl area

Maybe that's because soviet manufacturing was shit in general?
And it could not compete with much more superior products from the west.
In Latvia you can see VAZ about as frequently as you can see Maserati, Ferrari or Lamborghini.
No one is buying these Soviet/Russian made shit.

By the way - why you are even bothering with these elections?
Everyone in the West already know that czar Putin's boyars "United Russia" will get majority and czar himself will be coronated next year to rule for another 12 years and maybe even more.
And that's sad - it means that cold war against Baltic states will continue.

Originally Posted by nulle

Maybe that's because soviet manufacturing was shit in general?
And it could not compete with much more superior products from the west.

Well, you see the way the import and export works is a bit more complex. For example, Latvia might not produce any competitive cars, but it could export food. That is called the "comparative advantage" and serves as a foundation for the world trade. The same thing applies to Russia. It used to export things like steel which were very competitive on the market (and some of it could still be competitive). Economically, it makes much more sense to place the processing factories close to the raw material mines and export (=transport) the processed raw materials. And "processed" does not necessarily mean "assembled". The assembled parts might perhaps be more competitive in China. And so on. So, it might be more beneficial (=more economically profitable) for everybody that Russia would export the refined gasoline and not the raw oil because the price for the end user of the gasoline in Europe would ultimately be cheaper. But, at the present, as Ramil indicated, the options are very much limited. The oligarchy prefers to export raw materials and wouldn't care about the long-term economic benefits, because they seem to be more interested in the immediate capital and so they do not want to invest and take risks on the long run.

Originally Posted by nulle

And that's sad - it means that cold war against Baltic states will continue.

Would you be able to elaborate on that? I mean, I realize the Baltic states have historically earned a great deal of fear. Perhaps, they have their right to be anxious. I'm not sure if that could qualify for the "cold war" though.

Originally Posted by nulle

Maybe that's because soviet manufacturing was shit in general?
And it could not compete with much more superior products from the west.
In Latvia you can see VAZ about as frequently as you can see Maserati, Ferrari or Lamborghini.
No one is buying these Soviet/Russian made shit.

Well, everyone is better at smth and worse at smth. Cars is not one of our strongest sides, but still, rocketry and weapons IS our national trade. Quite hi-tech, don't you think. Oh, have your own country managed to create something worth mentioning during its years of independence?

Originally Posted by nulle

And that's sad - it means that cold war against Baltic states will continue.

Oh that. An imaginary war against countries with imaginary weight in the world. No, I don't think so. This war exists in your mind only, I'm afraid. I love your "Шпроты", by the way.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, that's not fair to hate the stagnation, but at the same time to praise the stability. Bazil was saying people are nostalgic about the stagnation period of the Soviet Union, but it stagnated, so people wanted the change. O my, people are never happy!

I'd hate to be tedious about terminology, but stagnation != stability, it's actually a turn to worse.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Have you ever heard of the collectivization or a war? If you think the situation is bad, things could always be much worse.

Great! Let's be thankful to Mr. Putin that we do not have a new collectivization or some 'small victorious war' by now. Well, let's be thankful we don't have to chase a mammoth all day now and live in caves! People are strange indeed! They want to live better than they do now, they are not thankful for 'the stability'.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

How ungrateful! People forgot about the 90s, forgot about the 80s, forgot about the 70s, about the 60s, about the 30s, 20s, and 10s. We need to introduce the history lessons in schools.

Oh, man, have you forgotten about educational reforms? You've read about Fursenko, our esteemed Minister of Education. Your comments were not complimentary as I recall. Him alone is a reason to hate the present government. What history lessons? We must educate perfect and brainless consumers!

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The 90s were famous, in part, for the [political] struggle being conveyed on the streets. People wanted the stability and being able to walk safely on the streets. They got that. The opposition is under control. Now, you want the struggle again? Do you want the reporters shot on the streets again (while saying their death relates to some criminal activity)? The prominent political opposition figures who tried to play by the rules (Rochlin, Lebed, etc.) were killed - do you want that phenomena to repeat?

Oh, I thought Lebed was killed in 2002, not in 90s. And Politkovskaya in 2006 while Putin was a president. Of course, I don't want that to repeat. That's why I'm against Putin. (No, I wasn't a fan of Politkovskaya).
I don't want to go into a deep research, but if we compare the number of killed journalists during 2000s and 1990s I'm afraid the results would not be in favor of the 'period of Putin's stability'. Murders continue, the only difference is that in 1990s bandids were killing each other and nobody seemed to object much, right now they murder more decent people.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

What laws are you talking about? Who is living by the laws in the RF today? The courts accept bribes on a regular basis. The criminals got the power.

Another reason to change the government, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Using your terminology, the politicians are the puppets. Do you think that if Zuganov would splash a glass of juice onto Putin that would restore the well-being throughout the state?

No, I don't think so. But it's a start. In 4 years there will be another attempt and perhaps another small change.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The 18th century is a way past the medieval times. My example was based on the French Revolution (as it served the mental foundation for the later revolutions).

Yeah, right. Especially for the so called 'Arabian revolution'. :LMAO:

Originally Posted by Crocodile

But, the foundation is still the same. People will not get onto the streets all of a sudden just because someone had twitted "let's go, bros!" Let's consider the relatively recent events in Moscow (aka "soccer fans vs the police"). What would the more prominent presence of CPRF in Duma do in that case? Would Zuganov climb an IFV and say through the loudspeaker: "Guys, calm down! We are the people's party and we have more representation in Duma now! So, go home peacefully and we will sort all the issues through the political dialogue!" Could you imagine that working?

'Manezhka' happenned because someone twitted 'let's go bros!', by the way. And you don't consider the reasons for that. People went there because the police released a criminal. Because some police officer took a bribe. That's what triggered this. The last drop. The whole system works this way because "у всех всё схвачено". "Всё схвачено" means there's no control, no counterweight. They are all members of the same gang. I want to introduce a rival gang. The problem is - people don't believe in the state power, they don't believe in justice, they don't believe in protection. They oppose the state power, they think in terms 'us and them'. Civil wars start this way.