Thread: Wikileaks?

@capecoddah: I hate when people are labelled "anti-American" in that way, as if it was a crime not to love America. People who are not American judge America on the evidence and on facts, just like we would any other country.

Personally I do oppose American foreign policy, because it's been hi-jacked by financial and corporate interests after WW2, and it is responsible for the death and poverty of millions of innocent people across the world.

Many smart and educated Americans have the same view. I think the majority of Americans would change their minds if they had access to truthful inbiased information in the news (such as what Wikileaks seems to offer). Why would anyone support foreign policy that is bankrupting them and their country, makes them very impopular across the world and is generally immoral. Assange is doing you a favour! Wake up and smell the coffee!

As for American people; I like most.. The only Americans I don't like are warhawks and brainwashed aggressive Americans who condemn everybody that doesn't worship the US...

As for revelations about Russia: Definitely! But it's probably a bit harder for Wikilieaks to get to Russian sensitive information. For me, the more I learn about the corruption in Russia and incestous relations between the government there and large business, the more apalled I get. The Russian people definitely deserves better than that. If the elections are so fradulent as some here are saying, then it would be good to read about that too. And proof one way or the other about the alleged bombing of flats in Moscow by the security services.

The one thing about Russia though is that most of the negative activities that it is responsible for take place within it's own borders - this is not the case with the US.


PS - Free Bradley Manning!

Originally Posted by Hanna

@capecoddah: I hate when people are labelled "anti-American" in that way, as if it was a crime not to love America. People who are not American judge America on the evidence and on facts, just like we would any other country.

Yeah, pretty much anyone I've ever seen or heard use the phrase "anti-American" has been some patriotic bible-bashing flag-waving muslim-hating republican-voting redneck. It's like when people use the phrase "political correctness gone mad". Yes, political correctness has (in some cases) gone mad, but everyone I've ever heard utter the phrase "political correctness gone mad" has either been a racist or a borderline-racist.

/rant

Originally Posted by Demonic_Duck

Yeah, pretty much anyone I've ever seen or heard use the phrase "anti-American" has been some patriotic bible-bashing flag-waving muslim-hating republican-voting redneck. It's like when people use the phrase "political correctness gone mad". Yes, political correctness has (in some cases) gone mad, but everyone I've ever heard utter the phrase "political correctness gone mad" has either been a racist or a borderline-racist.

/rant

And you spout the junk... UK haters need a history lesson.
Anna is an American-Hater too, and changed her name because she lives in fear of the internet.

I have a computer older than most of you (1982) and on-line since 1991. I've seen the (Deleted. L.) for a long time.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Personally I do oppose American foreign policy, because it's been hi-jacked by financial and corporate interests after WW2, and it is responsible for the death and poverty of millions of innocent people across the world.

Как сказал один американец: "Мне тоже не нравится внешняя политика США. Поэтому я живу внутри."

Originally Posted by Ramil

It's still a significant appearance. I don't mind my emails in public eye -- there's nothing special in them ))) Nothing that would harm me anyway. I'm a paranoid and encrypt everything important and I prefer to conduct business as anonymously as possible. Still, as I said -- the appearance of wikileaks indicates that no information is personal. No such thing as 'privacy' will exist soon. You may like it or not -- this will happen anyway. It'll be a new feeling for people. They will have to adapt. So, just in case -- I recommend clear your computers and maintain them in order. Every personal secret can be made available to public even now. The fact that yours are still 'secrets' means that they don't stir anyone's interest right now. There will be hundreds of wikileaks' in a number of years so the governments will have to adapt to a new reality. It may even be that they might want to play a fair game for a change. (Yes, I know, I'm only a naive dreamer )

(WHAT is the problem!! I type a response, and then am told I'm not signed in!!!!! Growl. It takes me forever in Russian, but in English????) Again:

I'm American, and I think WikiLeaks is important. I believe in free speech, after all. Embarrassing? Oh well, what doesn't kill you makes you strong! Also, the revelations just have not been particularly startling or surprising. I mean, the Arab Republic (built on oil), turning to the US for help with Iran? Was I surprised? Nope.

Besides, Wikileaks has a long and healthy history in every small town in the world. In small towns worldwide, people grow up, many secrets are known, people have different viewpoints, and life goes on, successfully. Every once in awhile, small town "Wikileaks," also known as the "rumor mill" in English, startles everyone for 15 minutes, and then life goes on, a little wiser, hopefully, than before.

In addition, I would think that the diplomatic circle would be proud to display their behind-the-scenes chess game, once in awhile. The negotiating process is really interesting, after all.

I do think that there will be many WikiLeaks online from now on. The world community can learn from small communities throughout history!

Ramil, I hope you are not a naive dreamer!

Originally Posted by Winifred

(WHAT is the problem!! I type a response, and then am told I'm not signed in!!!!! Growl. It takes me forever in Russian, but in English????) Again:

Yes, this is a problem on this new MR board! Seems this time limit feature could be easily fixed and turned off by Admin in the backpage.

I've listened to radio today and there were some people discussing the impact of Wikileaks on the weak minds of journalists all over the world. They all agreed that Wikileaks appearance is a major event that bloodied the nose of the American government, but at the same time there was a rather gloating comment about the fact that 'these fools' trusted their vital information to computers. In Russia, they said, they still kepp paper archives which are much more 'secure'. Moreover, what can Wikileaks 'reveal' about Russia anyway? We all know everything about our government and don't have any illusion about their 'goodness' whatsoever.
I think, the most important lesson was taught to the Americans which says 'Don't be so gullible when your government tells you fairy-tales'. As for the rest of the world -- may things Assagne published had already been known or suspected at least.

Originally Posted by Ramil

I think, the most important lesson was taught to the Americans which says 'Don't be so gullible when your government tells you fairy-tales'. As for the rest of the world -- may things Assagne published had already been known or suspected at least.

I think wikileaks impact on American minds is close to zero. To those inclined to disagree with the government wiki is just preaching to the choir. Supporters couldn't give a fig what Hilary Clinton thinks about Su Park Moon or whoever.
Nothing on that site should be even slightly surprising.

BTW, wiki claims the president of Belarus has 9 billion bucks:
Накануне во время голосования белорусскому лидеру тоже задавали вопросы: из «Викиликс» (WikiLeaks) обнаружилась и «белорусская утечка». Скандально известный ресурс, в частности, утверждал, что состояние Лукашенко якобы оценивается в девять миллиардов долларов.

Originally Posted by sperk

BTW, wiki claims the president of Belarus has 9 billion bucks:

I could say he had 100 million billions or only 5 cents. The question is if there is any proof. If so, it should be published in a Russian speaking paper that Belarussians can access. It would be disgusting even if it was "only" one billion.
Somehow I doubt someone who had 9 billion would bother being president of Belarus though, or?

Jones thinks it's all fake. Bradley Manning is a plant/patsy.

He (Jones) embraces ALL conspiracy theories. Its how he makes his money. Modern day piped piper.

Originally Posted by capecoddah

And you spout the junk... UK haters need a history lesson.
Anna is an American-Hater too, and changed her name because she lives in fear of the internet.

I have a computer older than most of you (1982) and on-line since 1991. I've seen the (Deleted. L.) for a long time.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't hate the UK. I don't hate the US either. And I have nothing against you personally, I was just making an observation. (Also what does the age of your computer have to do with anything?)

Originally Posted by Nerms

He (Jones) embraces ALL conspiracy theories. Its how he makes his money. Modern day piped piper.

*pied piper.

A lot of people feel the need to "believe in" something. For some that's religion, for others it's the paranormal, for others it's conspiracy theories. It's just a shame that some people take that need and turn it into a way to make money by spreading misinformation. (BTW please don't misinterpret me here as saying that religion is necessarily bad, I'm only saying that people who exploit religion are bad.)

Originally Posted by Hanna

I could say he had 100 million billions or only 5 cents. The question is if there is any proof.

Someone who have authority and 9 billion dollars can prove that day is night and night is day. So any proof will crash against this airtight argument.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Somehow I doubt someone who had 9 billion would bother being president of Belarus though, or?

Money and authority, are there anything more powerful in this life?

Originally Posted by delog

Money and authority, are there anything more powerful in this life?

Idiocy and incompetence.

Originally Posted by delog

Someone who have authority and 9 billion dollars can prove that day is night and night is day. So any proof will crash against this airtight argument.
Money and authority, are there anything more powerful in this life?

Good point, but remember, the whole Western world essentially is against him. 9 billion doesn't stretch very far then.. What does Bill Gates have, 20 billion? Lukashenko almost half as rich as Bill Gates... From what, illegal trade of tractors or what?? Seems impossible.

I doubt he has even 1 billion. A few million, maybe.
But remember the whole point of his popularity is that he is anti-corruption and a socialist - which is what the traditionalist voters want. If he had stolen even a few millions that would prove that he is a phony and his voters would turn against him, like they did against his predecessors.
Where is this story about the 9 billion? I can't see it on Wikileaks.

Originally Posted by Hanna

From what, illegal trade of tractors or what?? Seems impossible.

It's very possible and has nothing to do with tractors ot any such things. The whole mess about Lukashenko's quarrel with Kremlin is about resale of Russian oil to EU. Lukashenko claims that since Belorussia is in customs union with Russia so he should get Russian oil without duty by Russian inside prices. Russia says ok, no prob. BUT! Let's count how much oil Belorussia needs? Say, certain amount (for example the last year's amount of inside consumption). So Belorussia will recieve such an amount without duty. But if we count and amount that Belorussia actualy bought, it's several times greater. There is the rest? Was resold to the EU countries. Who have got the profit? Lukashenko. So Russia denied to sponsor Lukashenko with that money anymore, but looks like several weeks before the elections they have found some compromise.

Lukashenko almost half as rich as Bill Gates... From what, illegal trade of tractors or what?? Seems impossible.

I don't know has he 9 billion or not, but I know that he had something more expensive than tractors.
I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile) (and other weapon) which left from USSR and was been successfully sold to Venezuela and may be somewhere else.

Originally Posted by bsod

I don't know has he 9 billion or not, but I know that he had something more expensive than tractors.
I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile) (and other weapon) which left from USSR and was been successfully sold to Venezuela and may be somewhere else.

Still, I doubt that even he could steal several S-300 complexes without everyone noticing. Even if Belarus had sold them to Venezuela the money couldn't go to Lukashenko's pokets. You can't be that obvious when stealing something.

What a revelation!

I'd say all countries should submit to the will of the US. Let'em try to really rule the world... I'd give them about 10-15 years before things would start to fall apart. The higher they get now the lower they would fall later on.

We should declare war on US and immediately surrender. ))) Then hire lawers and demand equal rights.

Originally Posted by Ramil

We should declare war on US and immediately surrender. ))) Then hire lawers and demand equal rights.

As in that soviet joke:

"I wish our forces would start a war with the US as soon as possible!"
"What's your interest?"
"I would definitely take part in it."
"And what would you do?"
"I would immediately surrender, become their captive and start living like a human being at last..."