They beat only weak ones. They don't interfere with China, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
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They beat only weak ones. They don't interfere with China, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
First of all, the western world doesn't believe that at all--Europe is for the majority anti-US. And it's not like you guys aren't messing with Iran and NK's nuclear programs--how many times do I have to keep saying you're selling them fuel?! And how can you not say that NK and Iran are not evil governments? They kill their citizens for crying out loud. If you speak out against Kim Jung-Il or the Iranian leader, boom--you're in jail or you're executed.Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
Saudi Arabia is selling you fuel also (i mean oil). What do you have against it? I think that only energy can help country to become prosperous. No energy = no industry. No industry = no money. Why don't you want Iran (or any other 'third-world country' for that matter) to become a modern industrial state and get rid of medieval religious fanatism? Industrial countries tend to have citizens live in cities which makes them more tolerant and cosmopolitan. Keeping them in villages and denying them their own energy produces more antagonism against you.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
How much do you know about nuclear fission?
Do you realize that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make bombs out of fuel we're selling. Moreover - as it has been already said here - every gram of that fuel is returned to us after it produced energy in reactors that are UNABLE to produce U-235 or Pu-239.
FACTS PLEASE?Quote:
And how can you not say that NK and Iran are not evil governments? They kill their citizens for crying out loud.
It's a big overstatement. People of these countries doesn't have freedom of speech but what that has to do with the subject of the discussion? And what makes you think that civilian rights are above all? As far as I know about eastern civilizations they don't pay much attention to a personal achievements but to achievements of the whole nation instead.Quote:
If you speak out against Kim Jung-Il or the Iranian leader, boom--you're in jail or you're executed.
I would have nothing against Iran becoming an industrial state if it weren't lead by a bunch of psycho radical jihadist Muslims who want to send the world up in flames. And before you say Israel wants to do the same thing, why are YOU against the US selling them nuclear fuel? Don't you want them to become a modern industrial state? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Only when they do their government will become less radical. And not the other way around. You're confusing reasons and consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
And how can you prove that? How does having more money and power and resources make you less radical?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I could substitute a few of the words in that statement for other similar terms and say pretty much the same thing about the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
If they could find a way I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate.Quote:
They beat only weak ones. They don't interfere with China, for example.
Of course they are not great, no government is, but America hardly has the right to claim the moral high ground. They roam the globe starting illegal wars and killing thousands of innocent civillians, yet they still preach about how great they and their wonderful values are (what values? McDonalds?). We want democracy to spread the globe, just like in America... and who cares what anyone else wants.Quote:
And how can you not say that NK and Iran are not evil governments? They kill their citizens for crying out loud. If you speak out against Kim Jung-Il or the Iranian leader, boom--you're in jail or you're executed.
Economic conditions dictate the rules. When the majority of population is relatively poor, they seek changes and those whom they may consider as the main reason of their misfortunes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Never, and I'll repeat never any population will think badly of their government when some external force gets involved. They unite instead.
When people become more and more rich, when they have a good job, a house and some other benefits of civilization they become interested in keeping their wealth. The educational level increases and in this case, any government that will try to interfere with that will be overthrown.
So in order to change a political situation in any given country you should decide what do you want to have at the end. Whether it would be a poor country with some hostile and xenofobic populace or a rich country with open-minded people.
Every nation has the government that suits best the current political and economical situation in the country. If you want to change the government - change those conditions. If you change the government by external military force - all you'll get is even more radical and hostile government at the end.
History shows many examples of that. Pity US government hasn't discovered their way to a library yet :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
Hey, I didn't write that. It's RusskiSlav's
Germany'45? Japan'45? Cambodia'78?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I never said the US had the moral high ground. In fact we have tons of internal problems of our own that I don't approve of. However let me set this straight: The only wars I can think of that the US has started are Desert Storm and Iraq/Afghanistan. (And Yugoslavia bombings but I didn't agree with that so don't blast me). We did not start WW1 or WW2, you can thank Gavrillo Princip and Hitler for that. And we did not start Vietnam, we entered later. It was originally between France and Vietnam.Quote:
Originally Posted by basurero
And speaking of killing thousands of innocent civilians, how do you have room to talk about that when your own country, under Stalin, killed MILLIONS of innocent civilians?
I dont know of any war that did not involve the killing of innocent civlians, so can you please enlighten me on one?
Iraq, Iran, and North Korea have been around way longer then the US has, however they are still a "poor" country? Why is that, is it because the dictators get rich and the people get poor? Why dont they have advanced medicine? How about plumbing, heating, in there homes? How about food for everyone? I just dont understand that especially for
those folks in Iran/Iraq where they do have Oil as a major income in there country.
And someone states we only pick on the week ones?
Come on Russia was involved in Afghanistan as well. Are you saying Afghanistan is a powerful country? What about Chechnya are they strong too? Lots of civilians dying there too, or am I reading into too much American Media?
Here are some others just to jog your memory:
Latvian Partisan War
Lithuanian Partisan War
Hungarian Rebellion
Warsaw Pact Invasion of Czechoslovakia to terminate Prague Spring
Sino-Soviet Border Clash
Osh Riots, Kyrgyzstan
South Ossetian Rebellion (Secesion from Georgia)
The list goes on and on, so talking about picking on the week or "illegal" wars, maybe you need to look at your own back yard.
Here are the Wars America was involved in starting from WWII
WWII - Not started by US, we were attacked. But sure damn finished it, many historians all over the world believe that the US saved MILLIONS of people by ending this war with the 2 Nukes and with the aid in the European front. MILLIONS!
Note: Japan was at WAR with Russia as well!
Korean War - North Korea attacked South Korea - The US went to the UN council to vote on a resolution to furnish assistance to the South Koreans.
We are too nice.
Vietnam War - Started by the French attacking Vietnam. This of course was a huge impact to Russia as well, because this as well as other wars had to do with Communism! With the effect that if one country falls to communism the country next to him would be next.
Talk about trying to get all countries to follow a government! All about communism!
The US was involved because of that reason and that reason alone.
Desert Storm - Started by Iraq invading poor week Kuwait.
US could NOT do anything unless request for assistance was issues.
King Fahd of Saudi Arabia requested the assistance and approved of the plans to kick
Iraq back to where they came from. Again, we are just too nice. Helping all these folks.... What you think if we did not that Iraq would NOT sell us OIL. Come on thats what they wanted, all the money from the oil. Not to mention that the US also protected many other countries from missiles being sent by Saddam to Kuwait, Saudia Arabia and Israel.
Enduring Freedom - Started by Al Qaeda by using planes to attack the US. Killing 1000s of innocent civilians and damaging our economy.
Maybe we should have just sat back? Yeah right!
Iraqi Freedom - Started by Many Countries against Iraq for possible Nuclear Weapons, they had plenty of time to let in the folks to visit the sites etc.. instead they played games. This was with Many Countries not just the US. Here is just a note for some of you. If I had a bomb and you gave me 6 months notice before coming and checking my house, do YOU really think I would keep that bomb in my house? Hmm.... I know they still have not found evidence, but again, here is a dictator
with a long history of killing his own people and not only making threats but coming through with them. Ie.. Attacking Kuwait/Iran in the last 20 years to name a few.
These were done internationally. Tens of millions dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Korea'53, Cuba'61, Vietnam'75
These were attempted by US alone. US failed. Hundreds of thousands dead.
Yay, thank you Tobi! That's exactly the point I wanted to get across, but you said it a lot better than I could have! :thumbs: :thumbup:
Ramil, if I may use your line, I am too much of a realist to believe that bullsh|t. We did not start the Korean War, we entered later. YOU started the whole Cuba thing with your missiles, and we did not start Vietnam, we entered later. And the USSR was in Vietnam and Korea too, so by your logic you're guilty too. Between Stalin's gulags and the Soviet invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Finland, and Afghanistan, hundreds of MILLIONS died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Firstly Caucasus has been conquered more than two hundred years ago and was a part of Russia since then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Тоби
You're right of course. By pointing at USSR and saying that it was wrong. You did that back during the Cold War and you keep doing that still. But why are you doing the same things yourself now? USA shows imperial ambitions. That's only natural for a country at its stage of development. It's not good or bad. It's just a natural process. Empires rise and empires fall.
Attitides that are flowing from the White House frighten more and more. US has power and ability to exterminate the whole world. People are frightened that such mighty a power is in hands of such ... irresponsible people. (I put it as mildly as possible).
I am not saying that the USSR is wrong, just stating that folks cannot point to the US for starting or creating wars when they have done the same if not more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I can see your point that attitudes are flowing from the White House that actually frighten countries. However I dont see where Russia is Frieghtened or China, thats because they too understand the issues with dictators and unstable governments. The only thing they do is Veto their right. Yes we are one of the few powerful countries but we dont over run a government and call it the US. Look at Japan, it really should be called part of the US for there efforts in attacking us and having us waste Billions on the war effort and not to mention many lives. But we did not, we actually helped them rebuild and look at them today! Where would we all be without Sony!
How do you all just love that argument. USA didn't start. It just got drawn into it. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
I won't believe that bullsh|t about human rights and democracy either. It was about resources and influence. USA DID want to get involved in any of those wars otherwise it wouldn't participate at all.
USSR was subduing rebellions AFTER territories had been captured. USA didn't even bother to actually capture that territories.
USSR had collapsed. You continued that race.
You'll finish the same way then, you know.
USSR at least 'struggled' to build communism in the whole world. People believed in it and lived on that dream. I know it because I saw and still see those people who ruined their lives for a dream. America struggles for democracy... or what? Who believes that sh|t, by the way? We're not talking about or mutual gloomy past now. We're talking about the present situation. I don't care who was right in the past. I only see who's doing what now.
So did the Soviet Union back in the arms race :roll: And it was governed by, shall we say, slightly-more-than-irresponsilbe people. Heck, the USSR had the means to kill their own citizens, and they did. You're so quick to bash the US for "starting wars" (which is, as I've said, not quite true with regards to starting them) but you don't take a look at your own country's track record, which is as bad as or far worse than that of the US. Gulags killed more people than both of the A-bombs on Japan ever did, for example, but that neevvverrrr gets mentioned on these forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Don't point your nukes at Basurero, he is from New Zeland, after all. He's completely innocent in the whole situation. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Тоби
If USA will step in some sh.t, we all will find ourselves in that sh.t. It's a price for being 'nuclear country'.Quote:
I can see your point that attitudes are flowing from the White House that actually frighten countries. However I dont see where Russia is Frieghtened or China, thats because they too understand the issues with dictators and unstable governments
USA has showed already that UN don't impress it any more. 'A sandbox for African kinglets' as someone called UN once.Quote:
The only thing they do is Veto their right.
The Japanese are wise. They seized the whole world without any bloodshed. I prefer them as my 'oppressors'. :lol:Quote:
Yes we are one of the few powerful countries but we dont over run a government and call it the US. Look at Japan, it really should be called part of the US for there efforts in attacking us and having us waste Billions on the war effort and not to mention many lives. But we did not, we actually helped them rebuild and look at them today! Where would we all be without Sony!
USSR got "drawn into" Vietnam and Korea too. You were there fighting as well. Why? To struggle to build communism for the whole world? Not everyone wants to be ruled by US democracy, but NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE RULED BY COMMUNISM EITHER.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Vietnamese did the last one pretty much alone. Millions were dead because they were too late. Japan was occupied by the US alone (and its' constitution was pretty much written by Americans).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Korea: US succeeded in repelling an aggression (foreign-inspired btw). Truman's greatest (I'd call it criminal) mistake was not using the means at his disposal to thwart the Chinese aggression once and for all, there was no reason for NK to exist to start with.Quote:
Korea'53, Cuba'61, Vietnam'75
These were attempted by US alone. US failed. Hundreds of thousands dead.
Cuba? You mean, the Bay of Pigs? Don't make people laugh, the attempt itself was funny enough :)
Vietnam? Toby already wrote about that.
:lol: This is starting to be funny. Yes, USSR was bad - we got your point. USSR is no more. For already 15 years. Russian Federation is a different country. Stalin died in 1953. Maybe just to humour you I'll start remembering of all those poor Afro-Americans you molested for centuries? Or the genocide of native Americans? Or the Civil War? It's 21st century now or haven't you noticed? Russia doesn't have gulag any more. You're justifying present actions of USA by facts that gulag had taken much more lives than USA did. Do you strive to settle the score or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Ok so if we are talking about the current situation, this is what I think.
The war in Iraq, I would love to see the US pullout and return the troops back home. However I feel if they do that right now, then some other dictator will take over and Iraq will be back in the same place if not worse.
So hopefully by 2008 as Bush has stated, Iraq will be ready to run there own country.
For Afghanistan? I believe we need to stay there until we root all them terrorists out, its unfortunate that it has taken this long, but they can hide. And as long as terrorist are making threats then we need to put a stop to that. Not only for our lives and economy but for others too.
As for North Korea, I dont like the idea with them having Nukes, so hopefully the sanctions work and they stop that as well.
Just my opinion.
USSR didn't survive its mistakes. I just don't understand. By justifying the present course of USA do you want the same fate for it? Wise learn on mistakes of others, fools learn on mistakes of their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
Geez, I know the gulag didn't exist after Stalin's death. And the Civil War? Hellooo--Russia had their own civil war at the time of the Bolshevik Revolution! Genocide of Native Americans? Yes, that was wrong but so was your genocide under Stalin. Slavery? Yes that was wrong too but most Americans did not support it, and it was abolished as a result of the Civil War. And just like the gulag, none of that stuff exists anymore.
Well everyone makes mistakes so are we all fools? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, Tobi!Quote:
Originally Posted by Тоби
Surely. But it was American occupation that made Japan into what it is now, removing the bunch of power-crazed lunatics that it had as its' government before then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
And if all countries behaved like Japan or New Zealand are behaving, there would be a lot fewer reasons for the US to exercise (or maintain) its' force. Let's hope that happens once.
:lol: Spare me please. Not again. Please, read carefully my posts. Twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
So why are you waiving the flag with the bold word "GULAG' written on it in almost all your posts? Does it bother you? :lol:Quote:
Genocide of Native Americans? Yes, that was wrong but so was your genocide under Stalin. Slavery? Yes that was wrong too but most Americans did not support it, and it was abolished as a result of the Civil War. And just like the gulag, none of that stuff exists anymore.
You didn't answer the question that was in my post though.
No I am not trying to settle the score. I'm just pointing out that although you bash the US you ignore the bad things your own country has done.
Who said you so?Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiSlav
We're discussing a topic here. You can read it again right now. You may open a new topic and we'll discuss bad things my own country has done.
Believe me, I know much more than you do about this. I know bad things my country did you aren't even aware of.
:lol:
Although you bash Russia you ignore the bad things your own country has done. Our countries done and are doing now many bad things. That's not my fault, believe me. I'm not doing any bad things at the moment. :lol:
Are you? :lol:
You may not like that idea but this process cannot be stopped. And I'm not talking about NK alone. Nuclear technologies are not so big a secret now. Every student understands at least principles involved. I learned them back at school. Information leaks more and more. You can't have nuclear energy and at the same time be unaware about how to produce nuclear weapons. USA can slow that process a little but it cannot stop it entirely. Maybe it's better to get used to the idea and to think about how to live with it. Even if NK is stopped, some other countries would continue doing that again and again and again. Either USA will subdue the whole world wasting a great amount of efforts to buy some 10-20 years of stability or it will collapse trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Тоби
If you've read my previous posts and posts on other threads, you'll see I've mentioned that I was against the Yugoslavia bombings and the napalm bombings in Vietnam and I've said we're not a perfect nation and that we have plenty of things wrong with our current political system. I really don't ignore the bad things about my country, and I don't mean to seem like I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
The problem with that thinking is that the US gets Blamed for trying and of course blamed for NOT trying. So its never a win win situation. We are a World Power and other nations expect the USA to do something about issue such as this. However if we ignore we get blasted as well.
Somebody already mentioned about Pakistan and India having Nukes and why did the US not do anything about them? I will allow other people to comment about that.
I believe North Korea is unstable and hates the US so much that they are willing to sell a nuke to a terrorist to strike the US.
Who knows who else the North Korians will hate next year, maybe Russia? Maybe China? Who knows, but countries that like to threaten should have have Nukes!
I dont know what you mean by the WHOLE WORLD wasting efforts, right now its Mainly the US with Japan a close second and China being a distant third. When I say distant, its because they have Money tied into North Korea as well, so they have to tread lightly on the situation.
Everyone else? I dont think they have the concern or the money(economy) to even care right now.
There are not that many countries like NK though, e.g. I'd be perfectly fine with Japan and SK getting their own nukes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
............................
No I have never thought that, where does the US intervene? I believe we have great communication with China and have not realized any issues in some time.Quote:
Not necessarily. Have you ever thought that some of these countries are backwards because of US intervention? The US is doing everything it can to stop China's economic growth... if everyone in China were as well-off as in the US, then Americans would suffer.
As for the other countries, they have been here thousands of years before the US yet they still lack basic services, medicine etc.. yet there dictators have many palaces, money etc..... So show me some facts that the US is getting in there way.
I am stating that the US had no rights to intervene unless someone (like Saudi Arabia and Kuwaiti did) request assistance. Now you cant tell me that it is not being nice that we would come to the aid of a country requesting assistance from a tyrant? Yes we have some long-term benefit, no doubt, I am sure it is written in contracts that everyone always fails to see. Contracts that state, US help us and we will grant you OIL at a better price! You see, we are business people too, and if we dont see some benefit of the US taxpayers paying for a war, then hmmm something is wrong. But everyone always forgets about the facts AFTER the WAR. Who pays what, and for how long.Quote:
I don't really get what you are saying here, but if you are trying to say the USA is being "nice" and "helping all these folks" then I entirely disagree. You may say that the benefits are long-term, well, that may be true, but it will be a very, very long time before the advantages finally outweigh the cost of the lives of the thousands of innocents murdered (on both sides).
Remember it was Iraq who attacked, during that WAR, If civilians died, please send a note to Saddam for not looking after them, or not understanding the consequences of attacking countries.
They have nothing to do with Iraq, not during Enduring Freedom anyway. Enduring Freedom was the war within Afghanistan NOT Iraq. So this portion of my comment was concerning the war in Afghanistan and not Iraq.Quote:
What does Al Qaeda have to do with Iraq? I sort of agree with Afghanistan, but that is an entirely different story.
Well if your not going to understand that is ok too, maybe your ok with someone having a bomb living next door to you, or a threat to other neighborhoods far away. But the international community does not condone this. So just becuase it is my house, I do have rules in the community to live by.Quote:
Well I wouldn't be demanding you let me search your house for bombs in the first place. It is your house after all and who am I to tell you what to do?
I know your from New Zealand, so thanks for telling me.
On another note, do you think that it was ok for Russia to "place" Nuclear weapons on our next door neighbors land? They were trying to be very sneeky and our neighbors where like, what are you talking about, we have no Nukes. So we had to prove that they did, could you imagine what could have happened all over the world? WWIII and it would not had been pretty for anyone. So yes, we do have the right to know!
Quote:
unfortunately, the longer the US stays in the Middle East the more terrorists there are going to be, unless they do something to drastically change how people percieve them over there. You are not going to be able to kill them all and then wham, that's it - no more terrorists. There are always going to be new ones to replace the old. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, don't forget, and America is not very popular these days. Even if you don't agree with them you can see where it comes from. I too would probably become a "guerilla fighter" if my country (New Zealand - not Russia, btw) were invaded by some Islamic country trying to set up a religious theocracy, killing my family and friends in the process. And imagine how I would feel when I found out all they really wanted were the sheep...
I agree with you here, thats why I would love to leave Iraq, but again, we cant leave with the current situation as it is. We have to be responisble and make sure things are right before leaving. I beleive there are more folks happy then there are Terrorists. We all just look at the media who only portrays the terrorists activities. Do you not remember the day the Coalition took over Baghdad? The citizens where so happy, dancing in the streets, and dragging Saddams head all over the place. In Afghanistan the Taliban is trying to make another push, we need to show them that they cannot do this. However we need to be doing this with the local Afghanistan people, meaning more of them and less of us. Until we see that they can defend themselves of such people.
Thats the problem with Islam(my opinion) is that they believe that there Religion is above everyone elses. So until they understand that there are many others, they need to just take a chill pill. The problem is that it is huge following, but I doubt that most of them are radicals like the few we know. This also has to do with there government keeping things from them, or teaching them what they want them to be taught.
I have many friends in the Islamic community and it never seems to amaze me the way they think and the way they do things. I just have to keep telling them, sorry, I dont do it like that. Most that are in the US actually understand that now, understand that freedom to choose. Unfortunately, they only learn of that once they get to the US, or better yet, to countries outside the Islamic ones.
Quote:
Do you really thing Kim Jong Il wants to die? Last I heard he was a big fan of expensive cuisine and cars etc... Why would he want to be vaporised in a nuclear explosion? Maybe the oppressed people would think differently (probably not), but Kim Jong Il has a pretty sweet life.... A nuclear attack on America would directly affect everyone (including the people making the desicions), not just the soldiers on the front line like in a conventional war. Desicions like launching a nuclear weapon are not taken lightely and these people are not stupid. Everyone knows the consequences of nuclear war these days...
I dont believe he wants to die, nor did Hitler, or Saddam or many other dictators such as him. The problem here are his threats to the US and international community (South Korea, Japan etc..) that is not acceptable. So if he wants to do the things he loves to do as stated by your post, then why threaten, why cause problems with the international community? He was doing just fine without the threats and Nuke issues. Is this because he actually believes he can cause issues with the international community? If they know the consequences then he must really be way off, because he would not think about even building a Nuke. Look at Libya, we struck Iraq for that reason, and within weeks, Libya was like, Hi US we want to work with you, what do you need from us? We need you to stand down, we need you to stop the threats, we need you to compensate the families for your bombings, we need you to NOT start any Nuclear programs etc.. etc.. etc...
Yes Sir, we will abide! Have you heard anything between the US and Libya lately?
umm NOT!
http://www.litera.ru/stixiya/authors...cam-slona.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Тоби
Иван Крылов
СЛОН И МОСЬКА
По улицам Слона водили,
Как видно напоказ -
Известно, что Слоны в диковинку у нас -
Так за Слоном толпы зевак ходили.
Отколе ни возьмись, навстречу Моська им.
Увидевши Слона, ну на него метаться,
И лаять, и визжать, и рваться,
Ну, так и лезет в драку с ним.
"Соседка, перестань срамиться,-
Ей шавка говорит,- тебе ль с Слоном возиться?
Смотри, уж ты хрипишь, а он себе идет
Вперед
И лаю твоего совсем не примечает".-
"Эх, эх! - ей Моська отвечает,-
Вот то-то мне и духу придает,
Что я, совсем без драки,
Могу попасть в большие забияки.
Пускай же говорят собаки:
"Ай, Моська! знать она сильна,
Что лает на Слона!"
<1808>
И.А.Крылов. Басни.
Москва, "Художественная Литература", 1963.
Why don't just let them boast? They do that ONLY to keep its own population under control. Koreans are isolated from the rest of the world but a certain uncomfortable questions within the population arise even there. The government cannot provide a satisfactory answers so to keep their power they need to find an image of an external foe. USA suits best for that. They may be stupid but not that stupid. South Korea will become an island after NK will attempt any hostile action against USA and only a complete fool doesn't see it. So why are they doing this? Do you really believe they are maniacs? :lol: You're overestimating the threat and underestimating NK government. Keeping hostilities will play for their benefits.
Because otherwise it would seem logical to establish trade and cultural ties with the rest of the world. This would only lead to him and his cohort losing his power. They have nightmares about opening borders and free trade. Their political system will collapse almost instantly. But give them a threat and they will have the ability to hold their population in an iron fist.Quote:
So if he wants to do the things he loves to do as stated by your post, then why threaten, why cause problems with the international community?
I strongly suspect that CIA had already penetrated their nuclear facilities and know how things stand maybe even better than the Koreans themselves. So some five launches with 1:10 probability of a successful shoot doesn't really pose any threat. As far as I know those Korean missiles lack the range necessary to cross the Pacific Ocean. Launch one and in 30 minutes you'll die. I'll repeat they are not that stupid. Give them another 10 years and NK will collapse all by itself.
As for the probablity to sell nuke to terrorists - don't make me laugh. Radioactivity sources now are monitored so carefully that I doub't you'll be able to bring a nuke to America undetected. Frankly I think that this particular threat will be neutralized long before any real danger could present itself.
Attack NK now - USA will become really an 'Evil Empire' and thousands of Koreans will die for nothing.
I dont want to attack them either, as I do see your point, I think the tough economic sanctions are the way to go with these folks. Only becuase of the issues that South Korea is right in there path......
The reason we dont let them boast is because for the fact that they do some stupid things that involve innocent people. Example: South Korea
Funny how you bring up the CIA in NK, if you can, you should watch this movie.
Behind Enemy Lines II Axis of Evil (2006)
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/behind_ ... s_of_evil/