Thread: The soviet court is the fairest court in the world

I`m not a supporter of Mr. Khodorkovsky or YUKOS but find the prosecution of the former managers of that company too unjust. Our fair court condemned Svetlana Bakhmina to 7 years of jail. She has worked for YUKOS Legal Departament as assistante of the chief recently. Now she is under an accusation of complicity in plundering of “Tomskneft” and tax dodging.

Svetlana has got two children (3 and 7 years old). The court couldn`t prove that she was beneficiary party in plundering.
http://lenta.ru/news/2006/04/19/mistake/
Seven years of jail is the lengthy term of imprisonment especially for woman.
I wonder why were the @#$$^&* bastards who had killed 9 years old tajic girl condemned to 1,5 – 5 years of jail? And why was the bastard who had hit the girl with a knife (for 11 times!!!) under an accusation of hooliganism?!
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2006/03/30/trial/

The fascist murder is more inoffensive than plundering!!!

I can clearly understand why Khodorhovsky and Lebedev were condemned to! But I can hardly imagine how that woman could do harm to present officials. Do you think the punishment correspond to the crime?

недавно анек читал: за махинацию с мусорными ведрами была осуждена на 15 лет уборщица Юкоса

Originally Posted by Funtik The pig

Svetlana has got two children (3 and 7 years old). The court couldn`t prove that she was beneficiary party in plundering.
http://lenta.ru/news/2006/04/19/mistake/
Seven years of jail is the lengthy term of imprisonment especially for woman.

7 years of jail for $20 000 tax evasion and misappropriation of property for about $300 million.... looks like she did it for her poor hungry children.

I wonder why were the @#$$^&* bastards who had killed 9 years old tajic girl condemned to 1,5 – 5 years of jail? And why was the bastard who had hit the girl with a knife (for 11 times!!!) under an accusation of hooliganism?!
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2006/03/30/trial/

Becouse jury decided that girl was killed by UNKNOWN persons. They didn't know who exactly killed her.

The fascist murder is more inoffensive than plundering!!!

In Sverdlovskaya oblast' - the region where I'm living - last week here were killed more than 10 people. Most of them, I guess were russians or tatars... Stop the fascist murders of russians and tatars!

I can clearly understand why Khodorhovsky and Lebedev were condemned to! But I can hardly imagine how that woman could do harm to present officials. Do you think the punishment correspond to the crime?

Do they pay you to post here this BS?

Originally Posted by Funtik The pig

]The court couldn`t prove that she was beneficiary party in plundering.

Was she?
You know, the funny part about laws that if you're smart enough to evade the responsibility you'll be able to steal millions and later the court wouldn't find enough evidence against you.
I still think that in Russia no one goes to jail just because the court had said so. Such court decisions are under the strong influence of politics so - if anybody higher up is confident that she WAS the beneficiary party, the court will just "find" any evidence to imprison her.
Americans for that part are simple - the government has managed to get Al Capone for tax evasions only not for all his crimes.
As an old russian proverb says - был бы человек, а статья найдётся...
Remember - no matter what you are or what you are doing, the government will always have means to imprison you at any moment.

Originally Posted by Ramil

government will always have means to imprison you at any moment.

I tend to agree.

Here. I'm not getting into this debate, but just posting an article that you all may find interesting (and it was translated by PUSHKIN! LOL):

Kommersant-Vlast
No. 16
April 24, 2006
A VICIOUS SENTENCE
The YUKOS affair isn't over yet
Author: Mikhail Fishman
[Svetlana Bakhmina, formerly a YUKOS corporate lawyer, has been
sentenced to seven years in prison. Many are surprised by the
severe sentence, especially since Bakhmina has two young children.
But this sentence is an object lesson: it's intended to
demonstrate that the YUKOS case isn't closed.]

Like other arrested YUKOS personnel, Svetlana Bakhmina has
received a harsh sentence, making her ineligible for any amnesty:
seven years in prison. As in the case of Mikhail Khodorkovsky and
Platon Lebedev, the court sided with the prosecution completely,
ignoring all the arguments of the defense, and showing showed some
token independence and humanity by disagreeing slightly with the
prosecution on the severity of the sentence. Thus, it only
confirmed that the prosecutor plays the leading role in Russian
justice today.
Svetlana Bakhmina was a mid-level manager: deputy head of the
legal affairs department at YUKOS. Why has she been sentenced to
seven years? The court gave her two years on a charge of large-
scale tax evasion, but the main charge, which increased the
sentence to seven years, was conspiracy to commit major fraud in
relation to the property of the Tomskneft oil company. Bakhmina
was also charged with coming up with the scheme for transferring
Tomskneft assets abroad. Yet the "victim" in this case - Tomskneft
- hasn't filed any complaints; on the contrary, it says that all
its assets are safe and well.
This concerns the assets of Tomskneft-VNK, taken over by
YUKOS. The management of VNK resisted the takeover; it used a
technique that was widespread in the late 1990s - making up a
fictitious debt for the company, so that VNK appeared to owe
somebody $440 million. All the same, YUKOS succeeded in acquiring
the controlling interest. It refused to pay the fictitious debt,
and transferred the assets of VNK enterprises to offshore zones.
When the state, a minority shareholder in VNK, called on YUKOS to
account for the transfer, YUKOS explained that it was a safeguard
against attacks on the company by the fictitious creditors. All
the enterprises in question were returned to VNK ownership almost
a year before the auction at which YUKOS bought out the state's
remaining stake in the company - at a fair market price, as the
state later acknowledged.
Obviously, YUKOS was an aggressive player - but regardless of
its intentions, no assets were stolen. Nevertheless, Tomskneft
(contrary to its wishes and to common sense) has been declared a
victim, the temporary transfer of assets has been defined as
theft, and the lawyer who carried out the orders of the company's
real owners has been identified as the mastermind of the
operation. And everyone understands that Svetlana Bakhmina, an
ordinary manager from Moscow, is going to jail not because she's a
thief, but because she worked for YUKOS, and because things
happened to turn out this way - she's simply been unlucky. Yes
indeed, just unlucky, since no one has any doubts that the target
of Vladimir Putin's political campaign against YUKOS was the
oligarch Khodorkovsky, not rank-and-file YUKOS personnel.
If Bakhmina had been sentenced to no more than the time she
has already spent in pre-trial detention, or given a suspended
sentence of a few years, public opinion would surely have
responded with relief - insofar as it cares about Bakhmina at all.
This would have been perceived as the state being merciful. After
all, people feel sympathy for Bakhmina; not everyone, but many do.
A year ago, when Bakhmina had already been arrested, even some
members of United Russia's right wing expressed the opinion that
the authorities should stop going after rank-and-file YUKOS
personnel. Neither was there any particular practical sense in
convicting and jailing Bakhmina.
But the state remained adamant, and everyone understands that
Bakhmina's sentence is politically motivated. It's an object
lesson, precisely due to its excessive severity - intended to show
that justice is unconditional, taking no notice of titles or
merit. The sentence seems to assert that the YUKOS case is nothing
personal, and that Khodorkovsky, with his billions, is neither a
victim nor a target, but a participant in an extensive crime ring.
He has been sent to prison. So has his partner, Lebedev. Alexei
Kurtsin, a petty clerk at YUKOS, was given 14 years for money-
laundering, even though the prosecution actually asked for a
lighter sentence (an unprecedented event).
But this isn't just a matter of the state sending the message
that everyone is equal before the law. These show trials aren't
about legality at all. They're about public morale. Any leniency
with regard to Svetlana Bakhmina would have been revealing too, of
course. It would have been a signal that the YUKOS page has been
turned; that's enough, we're through with all that, let's return
to a peaceful existence. Not generalized words from meetings and
addresses to parliament, but a specific gesture that would have
made people breathe a surprised sigh of relief: believe it or not,
Bakhmina is free!
But the state has chosen to send a different message. For the
repressive justice mindset which has been victorious in the YUKOS
affair, there is no such thing as a minor, forgivable crime. There
are only crimes that haven't been investigated yet.
Translated by Pavel Pushkin

Dear JJ, I`m trying to realise matching between a crime and a punishment.

I can`t find the logic of our court: why must a swindler serve twofold more time than a murderer or his bander.

Becouse jury decided that girl was killed by UNKNOWN persons. They didn't know who exactly killed her.

These guys who atacked the family are guilty. And do you really think there wasn`t the killer among them? Maybe ninja had thrown 11 knifes from the roof... It`s named круговая порука. And if the government don`t assume the measures to supress ethnical murderers we`ll be drowned in a blood.

In Sverdlovskaya oblast' - the region where I'm living - last week here were killed more than 10 people. Most of them, I guess were russians or tatars... Stop the fascist murders of russians and tatars!

it`s terrible. But I didn`t want to pay a lot of your attention to her nationality, it doesn`t matter! she is a child and these guys are bastards. I`m no going to compare her murder and the murders in your city. It`s to cynic of you to say like "а вот зато у нас..."
I hope you`ve not said it for the conclusion: tajics kill us, we kill them.

7 years of jail for $20 000 tax evasion and misappropriation of property for about $300 million.... looks like she did it for her poor hungry children.

Maybe there is $300 million on her account...I doubt. I don`t deny her guiltiness But 7 years for a woman with 2 children and incompletely proven guiltiness is too hard!

Do they pay you to post here this BS?

One million is for every letter

Originally Posted by Funtik The pig

Dear JJ, I`m trying to realise matching between a crime and a punishment.

I see you didnt have "The basics of State and Law" at school. Once our teacher gave us an example - 2 hunters in the taiga had heard something in the bush they thought that is was a bear and in a rush they took their guns and shot... There was third hunter in the bush and one bullet shot him down. Who was guilty? They didn't remember who took whose gun. It was impossible to determine who EXACTLY is a murder. The sentence for them was not guilty.

These guys who atacked the family are guilty. And do you really think there wasn`t the killer among them? Maybe ninja had thrown 11 knifes from the roof... It`s named круговая порука. And if the government don`t assume the measures to supress ethnical murderers we`ll be drowned in a blood.

They are guilty but thier guilty of what? They are hooligans. You can say it "круговая порука" or something else but it is the bacis rule of LAW - there's no proof - not guilty. You know who exactly of them killed a gal? Ok, go prove it in the court and the murder will get about 15-25 yeas of jail. If not - just keep quite. I dont know exactly what there had happend so I am not crying around about "a poor tajik gal" and fasict bastards.

it`s terrible. But I didn`t want to pay a lot of your attention to her nationality

No, you did, you always said somethin like poor tajik gal... facist murder and so on and so forth.

I hope you`ve not said it for the conclusion: tajics kill us, we kill them.

I hope you give up your habit to put your own thoughts into another person's head.

Maybe there is $300 million on her account...I doubt. I don`t deny her guiltiness But 7 years for a woman with 2 children and incompletely proven guiltiness is too hard!

So what? The big money and the power is like a nuclear power - one wrong move and bang - one more Chernobil. She did the wrong things in the wrong place. Why do you care about her? Do you have the same troubles?

Anyone who keeps the company of a fascist murderer is a bastard, they should send them all to prison regardless of who was the one who actually finished her off. Guilty by association.

Originally Posted by basurero

Anyone who keeps the company of a fascist murderer is a bastard, they should send them all to prison regardless of who was the one who actually finished her off. Guilty by association.

K. may be a bastard, but I've not heard of him ever being a "fascist" or a "murderer." Being a thieving crook != Hitleresque. Or did I miss something somewhere....?

Anyone who keeps the company of a fascist murderer is a bastard, they should send them all to prison regardless of who was the one who actually finished her off. Guilty by association.

absolutely agree!
I`m upset of impotence of our procuracy to establish who is EXACTLY guilty. For me they are all guilty and they`re bastards.
At that rate the crowd of poor hairless boys will be able to kill anyone and none won`t EXACTLY guilty. Just hooligans...
The court can EXACTLY establishes guiltiness when the government needs in it. They can find any evidences when they WANT. In my instance they don`t want and no official don`t want to struggle with the ethnic murders.

I am not crying around about "a poor tajik gal" and fasict bastards.

I`m very glad you`re not. but I can also cry "a poor boy who was killed at Moscow`s underground", "poor foreign students who dies everyday", "poor veterans who gave their lifes to crush fascists", "poor uncultured and cruel Russia".

No, you did, you always said somethin like poor tajik gal... facist murder and so on and so forth.

If you want I`ll say that I hate everyone who kills defenceless, innocent people. (and you know that girl was really poor) I can say #$%#$#$ bastrads who killed her (not facists)...do you like it now?

I hope you give up your habit to put your own thoughts into another person's head.

Oh! really?! Have I put some my thougts into your head?! It would be great!

So what? The big money and the power is like a nuclear power - one wrong move and bang - one more Chernobil. She did the wrong things in the wrong place. Why do you care about her? Do you have the same troubles?

I see you like asking the questions
Every businessman can have the troubles by reason of our impartil and uncorrupted authority.
I wonder is V.Tikhonov your favorite actor? or just like uniform?
forecasting your question... I like pigs

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by basurero

Anyone who keeps the company of a fascist murderer is a bastard, they should send them all to prison regardless of who was the one who actually finished her off. Guilty by association.

K. may be a bastard, but I've not heard of him ever being a "fascist" or a "murderer." Being a thieving crook != Hitleresque. Or did I miss something somewhere....?

You missed something.

Originally Posted by basurero

You missed something.

Care to share?

Need to read.

Originally Posted by basurero

Need to read.

Thank you. Your response was most helpful. Might I suggest YOU read something: "How Not To Be A Complete And Total Surly Assclown?"

Is that a book or something?

Yes. I hope to get it published soon. Don't worry, the dedication is made out to you.

Lol, YOU'RE writing it? Well that explains everything. I was wondering why you would recommend me a book that obviously didn't work with yourself.

Originally Posted by basurero

Lol, YOU'RE writing it? Well that explains everything. I was wondering why you would recommend me a book that obviously didn't work with yourself.

Jane Goodall wrote extensively about apes, but that doesn't mean she was one herself. She just spent much time surrounded by such creatures...