Russian Politician wants Russia to use the Euro, to "save" it....

This is mainly for fun, I know this will never happen:

Here is the article I read about it: Rysk politiker vill införa euron | Näringsliv | SvD
(If anyone is really interested, just run it through google translate, it's in Swedish).
The name of the person in question is Mikhail Prokhorov who is a politician (what party?) and oligarch, according to the article. What do you know about him?

Basically he is saying that Russian participation would guarantee the future of the Euro and it would create a kick-ass economic zone from the Atlantic to the Pacific (move over, the dollar...!) Also from the point of view of Europeans, it would be a situation of "better the devil you know" - it would be better to work with Russia than to have China step up if/when the dollar sinks.

I just think it's a cool idea, but obviously I realise that Russia hardly could not be in the Euro since it's not in the EU, does not qualify to be in the EU (and probably doesn't want to) and because the existing EU members to varying grades are relatively paranoid and suspicious about Russia.

Also, I think that Russian media is exaggerating the problems with the Euro, it's not quite as bad as they make out. Germany and France are totally committed to it, they seem prepared to stop at nothing to keep it working. It will only fail if the ECB, Germany and France totally fail at one of their main political priorities.

From watching Russia Today a bit recently I have noticed that there is a lot of interest in the Euro in Russia. I had not realised Russia cared massively about either the euro or the EU in general. I thought Russia didn't take either very seriously.

Actually most Russian politicans secretly dream about joining EU and Eurozone but will never admit it because Russia simply cannot allow itself to beg and stand in line for membership. It would be too much humilation for national pride. So I guess in the nearby 50 years Russia will keep pretending that we aren't interested in any EU or Eurozone participation. Also Prokhorov is a clown, don't take him seriously. He is most famous for two cases: first, when he brought some 50 whores to Courchevel and French police accused him for pimping but his lawyers proved that he brought all of them for himself. And second when he proposed a law to replace current 40-hours working week in Russia with 60-hours one.

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So I guess in the nearby 50 years Russia will keep pretending that we aren't interested in any EU or Eurozone participation

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In these years Russia can dissolve again - just like in 1990 - oppressive dictatorships do not last forever - just like USSR, and now - Arab world.
Egyptian dictator Mubarak probably did not think in 2010, that in the next year he will be put to trial... :)

And after dissolution - parts of Russia's European half might join EU/Eurozone or even NATO - just like it happened with parts of former USSR - Baltics joined, and there are ongoing talks with Ukraine and Georgia.

I believe Baltic countries were always trying to cut themselves off Russia, even their join to USSR was forced, so - bad example

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In these years Russia can dissolve again - just like in 1990 - oppressive dictatorships do not last forever - just like USSR, and now - Arab world.
Egyptian dictator Mubarak probably did not think in 2010, that in the next year he will be put to trial...

And after dissolution - parts of Russia's European half might join EU/Eurozone or even NATO - just like it happened with parts of former USSR - Baltics joined, and there are ongoing talks with Ukraine and Georgia.

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That's your dream. We will hope it will never come true.

Dream or not, but it is foolish to assume that current borders are set in stone and will not change forever from now on.
Soviet Union also was called "союз нерушимий" and not many people in, for example, 1985 thought that after ~5 years it will not exist anymore.


And for me it is more believable that parts of Russia joins EU than Russia in its current state with its heavy corruption, authoritarianism and беспредел.

The reverse process is also possible, by the way. Following the total economic collapse of EU, for example. Attachment 157

The EU is not quite as close to collapse as Russian media seems to imagine!
As I've said several times, it would be very beneficial both for Russia and the EU if the level of trade, cultural exchange, openness and business increased between the areas.

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if the level of trade, cultural exchange, openness and business increased between the areas.

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And the level of crime and corruption too? :D

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Originally Posted by nulle

And the level of crime and corruption too? :D

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http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4646/crimelevel.png

Total crimes (per capita) statistics - countries compared - Crime data on NationMaster

On the other hand, NOBODY thought that the USSR would disintegrate, and the EU is a lot more shaky than that. Maybe Russian media is thinking along those lines.
Well, time will tell. The thing is, I think the individual nation states in Europe (most of them) are simply too small to stand up for themselves against larger powers like the US, Russia, China etc.
If we want our voices to be heard, we have to unite. Plus, as a peace project it's been very successful.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

On the other hand, NOBODY thought that the USSR would disintegrate, and the EU is a lot more shaky than that. Maybe Russian media is thinking along those lines.
Well, time will tell. The thing is, I think the individual nation states in Europe (most of them) are simply too small to stand up for themselves against larger powers like the US, Russia, China etc.
If we want our voices to be heard, we have to unite. Plus, as a peace project it's been very successful.

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Europe will soon be overrun by the Zerg immigrants. ;) You'll be probably wearing a hijab by the time you get old.


http://actforamericahouston.files.wo...ariahzone4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Europe will soon be overrun by the Zerg immigrants. ;) You'll be probably wearing a hijab by the time you get old.

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This time I can't argue with you....
See my travel blog about the village of "Sauna Swamp". Even this place has a small immigrant camp. It's an arch Christian place in the middle of the taiga... And in the local grocery shop turns up a pregnant black girl of about 15, wrapped from head to toe in a Somalian chador or whatever it's called... In the Somalian desert that's probably the perfect way to dress but.... Apparently those kids are "unaccompanied minors". Somehow they got all the way from Somalia to Sweden illegally and then they apply for political asylum. Once a child gets asylum, the whole family is entitled to come to.... And they don't work... live off the state.... (Where is this craziness going to end..... ?)

deleted my totally offtopic post!:off-topic:

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And they don't work... live off the state.... (Where is this craziness going to end..... ?)

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As I said - it is a hint to reform social security system, to make it impossible.
In Latvia living off the state is quite difficult - that pregnant girl would probably get only ~100$ per month child support here (+600$ at birth) and nothing more if she does not work. (And you have to work at least for 1 year to get unemployment benefits). So i'm not particularly against immigrants, as they will either work and pay taxes or die of starvation or cold weather. :D

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Following the total economic collapse of EU, for example.

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Russian economy also will be hit hard by that event - as most exports are to EU.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...an_exports.PNG
But yes - reverse variant is possible too.

@Basil77 - where is the Sharia Zone sign from?

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Originally Posted by nulle

As I said - it is a hint to reform social security system, to make it impossible.

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I wouldn't want it to be like in Latvia.... people can almost start starving or freezing due to lack of money. And lots of people are forced to simply leave the country.

But the idea that some people are too lazy to work and sit around and get supported by the state (i.e. their fellowing citizens who actually do work..) is just wrong.
And Sweden is not only supporting it's own lazy citizens (of which there are increasingly more)... but also those from other countries who turn up and tell some story about being persecuted. Quite a few of them are even criminal! And in the meantime old people don't get the care they deserve, and the schools and railways are suffering from neglect. I think it's a disgrace. I know there are quite a few immigrants from Eastern Europe in Sweden and I am not talking about them whatsoever, since they are hard working and fit in culturally. I have no objection to such people whatsoever. If they want to come to Sweden most people would be happy to see them because they have a good reputation. But people who can't read and write, or violent people from the Middle East who have absolutely nothing in common culturally.... No thanks! Practically all violent crime in Sweden involves somebody with a foreign background. It's absolutely unbelievable.

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people can almost start starving or freezing due to lack of money.

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If you are able to work and are not lazy you will not starve here.
If you are disabled or old you can apply for state pension - they are not large, but that's because people could not save anything during soviet times - SU left us with no money.
In normal countries you could save for your pension in some pension fund, or do business, and save the spare cash. But SU was not a normal country, so you could not do any of that - you had to watch your money wasted on bullshit like soviet military, and good life for communist elite.

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And lots of people are forced to simply leave the country.

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No one is forcing them - borders are open - everyone are free to go wherever they want.

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And in the meantime old people don't get the care they deserve, and the schools and railways are suffering from neglect

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In Sweden :o ?

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but also those from other countries who turn up and tell some story about being persecuted

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Like Latvian Legionnaires who were extradited back to USSR and died in GULAG? :D
And only after more than 50 years Sweden apologized for that.

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Practically all violent crime in Sweden involves somebody with a foreign background.

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Russian is "official" language in prisons here :D

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Originally Posted by Hanna

@Basil77 - where is the Sharia Zone sign from?

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I dunno. It was Ramil who posted it.

Shariah-controlled zone signs appearing in parts of the UK

Ooops, sorry about the mixup.

Oh dear. As far as I am concerned, they can move to Iran or Saudi Arabia if they want Sharia. Or go back to wherever they came from and set it up there.
I am sure Sharia has many good points but it does not belong in the UK.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Shariah-controlled zone signs appearing in parts of the UK

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If someone in Russia puts a sign saying "Heil Hitler" on a wall, will it give you a reason to call the entire state fascist?

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

If someone in Russia puts a sign saying "Heil Hitler" on a wall, will it give you a reason to call the entire state fascist?

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If these appear regularly and in so many places at once then the answer to your question would probably be yes. ;)

And, Hanna, what's so nice about Sharia law?

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And, Hanna, what's so nice about Sharia law?

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Except music and concerts - I'm not against that the rest of things in that sign are banned in my neighbourhood :D

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If these appear regularly and in so many places at once then the answer to your question would probably be yes.

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One nutjob in Daugavpils recently put up many signs which read that Latgale should secede from Latvia and join Russia.
These Sharia law signs might be similar.

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And, Hanna, what's so nice about Sharia law?

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Not everything about Islam is bad! It has some good points. A friend of mine is moslem and she explained it to me. Some of it sounded both sensible and good. I don't hate it at all.
I just don't want large numbers of moslems in Europe and I think that the moslems who come to Europe should adapt themselves. I wouldn't mind it at all if they became Christians.
But what religion they have and how they apply it in their own countries is not my business.

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Originally Posted by nulle

Like Latvian Legionnaires who were extradited back to USSR and died in GULAG? :D
And only after more than 50 years Sweden apologized for that.

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Gosh nothing escapes you! It was 60 years ago! But yes, I've heard about this... but I thought the people in question were Estonian Nazis....? But regardless, I agree that handing them back to the USSR while Stalin and Beria were still alive was wrong. Several of them seriously harmed themselves because they thought that would delay things. They must have been really scared. Tons of Nazis went to Sweden after the war, these would not have made any difference. Or they could have simply been thrown out, but not to the USSR.

Sweden later "made up" for this by trying to "rescue" some Baltic people from prison in the USSR. The USSR handed over a bunch of people who they said were political prisoners. But as it turned out, they were absolute gangsters and definitely belonged in prison! They started up a sort of Baltic mafia that smuggled all sorts of stuff and ocassionally killed people on the Baltic sea ferries. My grandfather was the manager of a terminal for Baltic sea freight ships and had lots of trouble with this gang.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

Not everything about Islam is bad! It has some good points. A friend of mine is moslem and she explained it to me. Some of it sounded both sensible and good. I don't hate it at all.
I just don't want large numbers of moslems in Europe and I think that the moslems who come to Europe should adapt themselves. I wouldn't mind it at all if they became Christians.
But what religion they have and how they apply it in their own countries is not my business.

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It seems you're mixing up Islam and Sharia. I totally agree with you about European Muslims having to integrate, though.

Sharia is a part of islam. There is no "light" version of Islam. I think it's too harsh, and I think it's punisments are too grim. But fundamentally the idea is to create a good society. It's just that moslems have a different idea about what is a good society than we have...

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Originally Posted by nulle

Except music and concerts - I'm not against that the rest of things in that sign are banned in my neighbourhood :D.

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Probably not, but Sharia law also presumes that theft must be punished by cutting the arms off and women who cheat on their husbands are to be stoned by a crowd. There is much more in Sharia law. Many nicer things, I'm sure you'll appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

But fundamentally the idea is to create a good society.

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Yeah, the Holy Inquisition wanted the same thing, actually. Come on, people, those laws are medieval, it's not XI-th century, its XXI-st.
Actually Islam 'evolves' pretty much like Christianity. It's now dark ages there, but there will be an islamic Martin Luther and the Reformation. I'm sure it will be a very interesting time for the muslims.

Why would Russia want to save or join EU/Euro? How absurd. The EU is run by elites and bankers.... EU members are, coincidentally, going broke and ultimate goal may be a global currency (think: if many EU countries and their countries collapse, US collapses... and so on....). It's not out of realm of possibility if you think about it.

Da, naysayers will scoff but to suggest Russia should or wants any part of the EU is mere fantasy. Putin or whoever is at helm and Russia's own elites might want a piece of the action when they solidify the profits/proceeds but any arrangement would be to take a share of profit.

What the Russian politician probably means is to join in on the thievery.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Actually Islam 'evolves' pretty much like Christianity. It's now dark ages there, but there will be an islamic Martin Luther and the Reformation. I'm sure it will be a very interesting time for the muslims.

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Actually there was such a person and his name was Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab.

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Originally Posted by it-ogo

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there will be an Islamic Martin Luther and the Reformation.

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Actually there was such a person and his name was Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab.

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Уффф, зто замечание и сравнение можно толковаться очень по-разному!

(As always, correct my Russian, but I mean to say: "Wow, that comment and comparison can be interpreted in several very different ways!")

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Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Уффф, зто замечание и сравнение можно толковаться очень по-разному! ...

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может толковаться или можно толковать

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Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Уффф, зто замечание и сравнение можно толковаться очень по-разному!

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Salafism is rather close to Protestantism ideologically and has many similar features. Its purpose was to come to the origin of the religion, to get rid of corrupted religious organizations and to introduce God's law to the life of regular people more immediately.

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Originally Posted by it-ogo

Salafism is rather close to Protestantism ideologically and has many similar features. Its purpose was to come to the origin of the religion, to get rid of corrupted religious organizations and to introduce God's law to the life of regular people more immediately.

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FYI
Religiosity and intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote: "Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."