Thread: Russian legal system: the Russian perspective

Hi everyone,

Do Russians regularly engage in debates about the decisions of the Russian courts? What do they think of the legal system?

Are there any major cases that the Russian government has lost in the courts?

How do Russians view the Supreme Court?

Is going to court affordable for the average Russian?

I am particularly interested in how Russians view legal/court issues. Not whether their view is accurate.

I have already read a lot of reports on the Russian legal/court system, and the issues it faces. So I am not looking for the system to be explained, or to be told about the issues it faces - unless it is in the contexts of what most Russians think.

So if most Russians think that the court system is reliable and effective, I want to hear that. If they think it is corrupt, I would like to hear that. I am not concerned with whether what Russians think is true or false.

Deleted. L.

Are you deliberately trolling my threads? Just like in my other thread, you are not in anyway answering my question.

In my other thread you are discussing the Lada, which have nothing to do with what I was asking there.

I am asking about what Russians "think" and how they "view" the Russian legal system. I literally used the words "think" and "view" in my opening post.

Not only did I use those words but I also specifically said:

I have already read a lot of reports on the Russian legal/court system, and the issues it faces. So I am not looking for the system to be explained, or to be told about the issues it faces - unless it is in the contexts of what most Russians think.

I am quite certain I know a lot more about the Russian legal/court system then you do, or even the average Russian. That is why I did not ask for it to be explained.

This is really a question for Russians to answer, or people that have spent a lot of time in Russia.

Originally Posted by dinlot

Deleted. L.

The third and last warning. One more political rant and you are banned forever.
By the way, dinlot is your forth or fifth nickname here.

(temporary post)

that the court system is reliable and effective, I want to hear that. If they think it is corrupt

Sometimes effective, sometimes corrupt.

Is going to court affordable for the average Russian?

It is not something expensive until case is something about murky affairs of big money business.

Originally Posted by Chemist12

So if most Russians think that the court system is reliable and effective, I want to hear that. If they think it is corrupt, I would like to hear that. I am not concerned with whether what Russians think is true or false.

IMO, the court system is corrupt in general, however it works reliable enough for ordinary cases. But if a case is about big money, influential officials or the government, you have no chance.

It works reliable enough for ordinary cases

The experience of my friends shows that our courts are branches of the Hell :
coruption, incompetence and nothing more. I don't have any decent word for our courts.

I am interested in this topic too. In a recent court decision in Texas USA, a judge defended a very lenient sentence for a kid who killed 3 people while he was drunk and driving. She said:

1. Since his parents are wealthy then he can be rehabilitated.
2. Since his parents didn't teach him right from wrong then he deserves a second chance to learn.
3. Poor people can't be rehabilitated so they should get more serious penalties for crimes they commit.

Also, people can get better treatment in prison if they are sent to a 5-star prison. It works like a hotel. The prisoners pay rent for their cells and can even leave the prison to work.
Do the courts in Russia work like that too?
Are there 5-star prisons in Russia?

Do the courts in Russia work like that too?

Yes it can be. Many examples exist in mass-media. Russia has very big index of "corruption perception" because of it.
Money and connections can override law...

Are there 5-star prisons in Russia?

I do not know about such things in official way.

However the whole picture is distorted by several facts:
a) Mass media writes primarily about injustice by nature. Hot news is dirty ones.
b) Typically there is always be one side in the court which will say that desicion is "unfair". By nature of people.

So, it is difficult question "how much courts are corrupted?"... Corrupted it is. But our perception is distorted about scale of this corruption.

I have examples of normal work of justice system with people with money and connections, like police chief of the city or over-middle businessman.

Check out Black Dolphin in Siberia... now that is a prison...

Originally Posted by Chemist12

Check out Black Dolphin in Siberia... now that is a prison...

Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you see on the "Lockdown"

I watched a Russian film called "Na igre" from 2009. The main premise of the film is a sci-fi scenario, but everything else seems to be supposed to be set in modern times. It's set in Nizhny Novgorod.

What's very disturbing, is
1) There are several very bad criminal organisations around, and this seems to be taken for granted.
3) When bad things happen, the protagonists don't call the police because they don't trust them and think they may be in league with some of the criminals.
4) The protagonists all have the view that you can't have a good life doing a normal office job, but instead, being a gangster in a "protection" scheme is the way to make money...

The level of criminality and police corruption that was depicted, is unthinkable in a Western European country. You couldn't use that in a "realistic" film, because everyone knows that's not how things are.
But in this Russian film it's part of the everyday life for the protagonists.

I was left wondering if the bad depiction of the police in this film reflected how things really are in Russia, and how people think of the police. Is the trust for the police really that low?

I have no personal experience of the police in Russia but I have read some complaints, both from Russians and tourists to Russia, that the traffic police are corrupt and accept bribes as routine.

Originally Posted by Hanna

...

You are talking about sci-fi action movie which central point is about Counter-Strike, Mortal Kombat and NFS games in real life.
No, it is not about accurate depiction of real life. Lock, stock and two smoking barrels as another example.

I assure you, every normal russian will go to police if met crime actions against him.

^^Good to hear, Alex!

Originally Posted by RedFox

IMO, the court system is corrupt in general, however it works reliable enough for ordinary cases. But if a case is about big money, influential officials or the government, you have no chance.

Sounds a bit like the United States, to me. All you need to get acquitted, is an expensive lawyer who can manipulate the people in the jury. On the other hand, for some ghetto guy with a publically assigned lawyer, the guilt is assumed - and then they are sent to privately!!! owned prisons.

One thing about the Russian criminal system that makes sense to me, is to make the prisoners do proper work - things that really need doing.
Of course, the conditions should be reasonable.

Re "five star prisons" in Russia. I don't know anything about it other than what I saw on TV in connection with Mikhail Khodorkovsky. He seemed to be set up with a little office in prison and had a revolving door for CNN and others who wanted to interview him in prison. After hearing a lot about terrible prison conditions in Russia, that was a bit surprising. If there is such a thing as a "five star prison" in Russia, then that was where he was... The fact that he gave interviews throughout his time in prison also refutes the idea that he was imprisoned on political grounds to shut him up.

Btw, does Russia have jury trials?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Btw, does Russia have jury trials?

Yes. They were launched in 1993. They applicable if crime is heavy and accused makes request for it.

Originally Posted by Alex80

Yes. They were launched in 1993. They applicable if crime is heavy and accused makes request for it.

I think it's a good idea in Russia to offer jury trials as an option, since a lot of people are very suspicious of the state. To involve regular people may add an extra checkpoint.
It doesn't solve all the problems, of course, but at least it offers an extra layer of external visibility and protection for the accused.

I think a lot of people in the US too, have a suspicious view of the state, but for different reasons than the Russians. So it makes sense that the US also uses this system. In Europe, I know only of the UK using it, and I do not know why or what the background is. It's only used in criminal cases.

In Northern Europe, most people trust the state more than they trust their fellow citizens ("state is always good and always knows best...")
So jury trials are not used. The general opinion is that only the state can truly be trusted to make an accurate judgement regarding somebody's guilt, whereas regular people would get confused or emotional - so can't be fully trusted to be objective.

Lately some people started feeling that some judgements are political, for example in connection with some filesharing cases (where many thought the government had decided beforehand, what the verdict should be), and cases to do with criminality by immigrants.

Was there a public debate about jury trials at the time, in Russia, or how come it was suddenly introduced in 1993?

Was there a public debate about jury trials at the time, in Russia, or how come it was suddenly introduced in 1993?

As far as I understood from wiki it was not "suddenly".
It was part of "requests for liberal reforms" from deputies in 1989. In 1991 USSR fell apart, so it taked time to introduce this system. 1993 - first case of it's usage.
Note, that in 2009 Putin removed cases of terrorism from jurisdiction of jury trials. He politely said "we see that it is uneffective in some regions". Everybody understood that it is about Chechnya.