Is Russia a democracy? Плюс то же о некоторых других странах

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Originally Posted by RedFox

The only way to bring the country to worthy life is to destroy the system entirely and make sure it will never be able to arise. And the only way to do so in our circumstances is the democratic nationalistic revolution.

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(Дeleted. L.)У нас уже наломались, сломали, все просрали, что можно, на весь мир облажались, до сих пор обтекаем. (Deleted. L/) нам разрушений хватит - мы уже строим новое общество, чего граждане (Deleted. L.) предпочитают не замечать.
(Deleted. L.)считают, что лучшим для русского народа почему-то будет опять сломать (Deleted.L.) государство.

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Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

мы уже строим новое общество

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(Deleted.L.)

(Deleted. L.)

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Originally Posted by Юрка

Среди правых сволочей не меньше. Вообще сволочи размазаны равномерно среди всех групп населения.

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Inflaming statement = trolling

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Originally Posted by DrBaldhead

(Дeleted. L.)У нас уже наломались, сломали, все просрали, что можно, на весь мир облажались, до сих пор обтекаем. (Deleted. L/) нам разрушений хватит - мы уже строим новое общество, чего граждане (Deleted. L.) предпочитают не замечать.
(Deleted. L.)считают, что лучшим для русского народа почему-то будет опять сломать (Deleted.L.) государство.

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Как зачинатель перепалки с переходом на личности, получаешь предупреждение.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

Дело не в сволочах, а в специфическом искажении восприятия, которое не позволяет левым управлять государством.

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Левые нормально управляли, пока в их внуках не кончился революционный энтузиазм. Теперь эти внуки стали отличными правыми.
А порядочность позволяет компенсировать недостатки любого мировоззрения. У правых тоже есть искажения. Например, в 1930-ые годы в США был голод, а они уничтожали продукты, чтобы спасти рынок (а не людей). Они (а именно банки) отнимали у фермеров землю. Они сгоняли их на принудительные работы по строительству дорог (ГУЛАГ по-американски).

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Originally Posted by Lampada

Inflaming statement = trolling

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1. Мне кажется, что Вы используете термины, смысл которых не понимаете (троллинг).
2. Мне кажется, что Вы не стремитесь к тому, чтобы я понял ваши предупреждения (англ. язык).

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Originally Posted by Юрка

Левые нормально управляли, пока в их внуках не кончился революционный энтузиазм.

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Если вы в следующем сообщении собираетесь рассказать, как Сталин замечательно поднял страну с колен, а потом деды-воевали-бабки-помогали, то давайте просто не будем. Эти разговоры уже утомили до невозможности.

Кстати я согласен, что Lampada напрасно назвала тот пост троллингом. Обычное мнение было высказано.

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(Deleted.L.)

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Извиняюсь, что ввязался в перепалку.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

Кстати я согласен, что Lampada напрасно назвала тот пост троллингом. Обычное мнение было высказано.

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Может, для кого-то и обычное, но на нашем форуме обидно такое читать.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

Если вы в следующем сообщении собираетесь... утомили до невозможности.

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Замечу только, что это называется переходом на личности. Вы комментируете не обсуждаемый предмет, а мои намерения и вашу реакцию на мои намерения.

P.S. Но Лампада такие вещи не замечает.

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Originally Posted by Lampada

Может, для кого-то и обычное, но на нашем форуме обидно такое читать.

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Сами по себе грубые слова, если они не направлены на участника форума, не являются оскорбительными. Здесь же даже мат обсуждался без купюр, с точки зрения филологии.

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Originally Posted by Юрка

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Если вы в следующем сообщении собираетесь... утомили до невозможности.

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Замечу только, что это называется переходом на личности. Вы комментируете не обсуждаемый предмет, а мои намерения и вашу реакцию на мои намерения.

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Вообще-то это называется предложением "давайте не телепать друг другу мозги".
Я прекрасно знаю ваши аргумент, вы прекрасно знаете мои. В чем смысл этого разговора?

А еще это называется наглым искажением моих слов, поскольку в вашей цитате моего поста "разговоры, которые утомили" изящно превратились в "вас, который меня утомил".
За сим откланиваюсь. Больше с вами в диалоги вступать не намерен, поскольку вы либо не умеете читать, либо тролль.

For the record, I think it's unfortunate DrBaldhead's statements/comments got censored. (Ditto for whatever provoked RedFox's rebuttal being moderated?). I find myself disagreeing with most of what DrBaldhead states about politics (hehe - I think so, anyway) but I doubt he said anything really that bad requiring that. Imho, it's good to see Russians get passionate and emotional about things that concern their country. Whether I agree with or not, I think they should try to evaluate what is going on. All imho, of course. I also have confidence that they can moderate themselves. They don't seem to get out of line much - but, that's just my impression.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

That is not the question. The system works in the "negative selection" mode. If Putin is thief and all his ministers are thiefs, could they build fair system? So the system degrades, day by day. That movement may not be visible on close distance, but if we look 10 years back, we can clearly see the whole process. "Рыба гниёт с головы."
So all good cops either leaved police or turned into bad cops.

Police can be reformed only when the president actually decides to do that. For example, as Saakashvili did it in Georgia. He fired all the road police services entirely and created them anew by hiring persons who never served as policemen before.



...and they can kill their women for any ridiculous reason in Saudi Arabia too. Uh, thanks, that is not an option. I prefer to have both freedom and social services, not to sell one of them for another.

Russia is controlled by "the system of crooks and thieves". The only way to bring the country to worthy life is to destroy the system entirely and make sure it will never be able to arise. And the only way to do so in our circumstances is the democratic nationalistic revolution.

In Singapore, they built a fair state with some kind of dictatorship, and their results are very impressive. But that way does not match our mentality. In fact, Lee Kuan Yew created the whole new nation from fragments of different ethnic groups that lived in Singapore of that time. He is a great person, I think. But here in Russia we already have Russian nation. So we don't need any kind of dictators, but only our own will.


The fact is Edinaya Rossia was never intended to develop anything, but only to steal and lie. Too bad, it took too long time for us to understand that. The real resistance against the system of crooks began only 2 years ago, so now we have to go long way.

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I'm not arguing with you on this RedFox, you are much better placed to judge this than me.
However it seems like you ought to get politically involved in some party with a concrete program to achieve change. You obviously has strong feelings about this.

But whatever the fix is, it has to come from inside Russia, driven by Russians. Nobody else can solve your problems, or truly has your best interests at heart. Not the EU, not the USA and nobody else. Convincing a foreigner that things are crap in Russia doesn't change anything, apart from perhaps discouraging people from all things Russian. It's the Russians who have to want to change.

As for me, I like the culture and language of Russi, want to be able to visit there and feel safe, but apart from that, the politics of Russia is up to the Russians. I am neither going to jump on the Western bias about Russia, nor believe some spin doctor who would claim that it's a faultless country. I also prefer to look for positives and not come here and bring up every bad thing I ever heard about Russia.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

I'm not arguing with you on this RedFox, you are much better placed to judge this than me.
However it seems like you ought to get politically involved in some party with a concrete program to achieve change. You obviously has strong feelings about this.

But whatever the fix is, it has to come from inside Russia, driven by Russians. Nobody else can solve your problems, or truly has your best interests at heart. Not the EU, not the USA and nobody else. Convincing a foreigner that things are crap in Russia doesn't change anything, apart from perhaps discouraging people from all things Russian. It's the Russians who have to want to change.

As for me, I like the culture and language of Russi, want to be able to visit there and feel safe, but apart from that, the politics of Russia is up to the Russians. I am neither going to jump on the Western bias about Russia, nor believe some spin doctor who would claim that it's a faultless country. I also prefer to look for positives and not come here and bring up every bad thing I ever heard about Russia.

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Yeah, pretty much the same attitude you have about any other country. =)) Here comes a paradox - what if the Russians think it's not just up to them, and want somebody else to help them solve some of their problems? :-P

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

Yeah, pretty much the same attitude you have about any other country. =)) Here comes a paradox - what if the Russians think it's not just up to them, and want somebody else to help them solve some of their problems? :-P

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That's exactly what happened in the 1990s. The USA (and Europe) sent in anyone from businessmen, corporations, missionaries, journalists, spies, fashion designers and human rights activists to teach the Russians how to runt their country, after communism. And Russia let them in. Even more so in other ex Soviet republics.
So to summarise: They have already tried that.

But maybe they didn't try hard enough last time, is that what you are saying, Eric?
Maybe Russia needs to be a colony of the USA, or perhaps even or the 51st state of the USA?
Maybe you could take on some of the US foreign debt as compensation - since Russia has hardly no debt compared to the USA.

And in return the USA could teach the Russians all about how to run a democratic, prosperous and peaceful country where everybody lives happily ever after...

How about it, Russians?

[That's enough time wasted by me on Eric's trolling - as provocative and silly as it is, it's not worth wasting time on]

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Originally Posted by Eric C.

what if the Russians think it's not just up to them, and want somebody else to help them solve some of their problems? :-P

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Это вряд ли. *)

А вот украинцы, похоже, действительно верят, что EU обязан им помогать. :shock:

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Originally Posted by RedFox

вы либо не умеете читать, либо тролль.

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Ну вот, опять обсуждаете меня, обзываетесь. Если модератор разрешил, то это не значит, что культурный человек (фразу "за сим откланиваюсь" расцениваю как претензию на культурность) этим воспользуется.

Что касается "не умеете читать":
1. Ваша цитата не искажена, так как там стоит многоточие.
2. Моя фраза "вашу реакцию на мои намерения" говорит о том, что вашу реакцию ("утомили") я отношу не к себе, а к своим намерениям (что-либо написать).
Таким образом ваши претензии ко мне считаю беспочвенными.

P.S. Лампада, я бы конечно написал это в личном сообщении, но приходится публично, так как наезд был публичным.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

However it seems like you ought to get politically involved in some party with a concrete program to achieve change.

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That "concrete program" as was cited above is called national-socialism. And those paries and programs are banned in all european countries including Russia.

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Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

That "concrete program" as was cited above is called national-socialism. And those paries and programs are banned in all european countries including Russia.

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Советую отучиться говорить за других. Полезный навык, в жизни пригодится.