Thread: Regarding Russian in the Baltic States

Austerity pushed onto peripheral states has lead to slowdowns/recessions/depressions.

So - problems caused by reckless spending should be fixed with even more reckless spending?

Before, they were part of the Soviet Union, now they are part of the European Union.

Only this time it was our decision to join the EU - they did not send tanks here.

Even though they were not rich

Of course - commie occupants robbed them.
My grandparents lost everything when they were deported to Siberia.
Many people who returned form Siberia later found their former houses and flats already occupied by "liberators" and were forced to live in communal flats instead. (only in 1990s they (or their descendants) got their properties back if they lived long enough).

Now I'm planning to start my own business - 30 years ago commies would throw me in a prison for that.

It's a shame about the military bases and excessive Soviet military installations in the Baltic states.

Of course - it was an occupied territory after all - local "burgeous nationalists" and "fascists" needed to be kept in check.
And Hanna - you said that beach in Liepāja was nice - in Soviet Times most of Kurzeme's beaches were off-limits to everyone except military (trespassers were shot) - to prevent people escaping to dirty, burgeous, capitalistic Sweden.

Originally Posted by nulle

Only this time it was our decision to join the EU - they did not send tanks here.

Почему люди считают, что старны Балтики должны быть чем-то лучше Афганистана, Ирака и Ливии? В конце концов, вхождение Прибалтики в состав СССР не противоречило международным правилам на тот момент, и было признано всеми странами, включая США. В отличие, скажем, от вторжения в Ирак, которое ООН не санкционировал. Думаю мы можем поставить Балтийские страны и страны востока в один ряд - если раньше над Прибалтикой глумился Советский Союз, то теперь будет глумиться США. Особенно, если принять во внимание, что страны Восточное Европы, включая Балтику, считаются в ЕС странами второго сорта.

Originally Posted by mishau_

Почему люди считают, что старны Балтики должны быть чем-то лучше Афганистана, Ирака и Ливии? В конце концов, вхождение Прибалтики в состав СССР не противоречило международным правилам на тот момент, и было признано всеми странами, включая США. В отличие, скажем, от вторжения в Ирак, которое ООН не санкционировал. Думаю мы можем поставить Балтийские страны и страны востока в один ряд - если раньше над Прибалтикой глумился Советский Союз, то теперь будет глумиться США. Особенно, если принять во внимание, что страны Восточное Европы, включая Балтику, считаются в ЕС странами второго сорта.

Would you mind describing how they are gonna do that? Exile Latvians to Alaska/Guantanamo? Take away their property? Have Americans eventually settle down in their houses?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Take away their property?

Just destroy their property as we see in other contries.

Exile Latvians to Alaska/Guantanamo?

For those ones who will dare resist why not.

Originally Posted by nulle

So - problems caused by reckless spending should be fixed with even more reckless spending?

You are making a false dilemma. Either austerity or reckless spending. This is incorrect.

At least in Latvia there were two options - spend (recklessly) as previous government (unsustainable in long term) or cut spending (austerity) to keep the debt at reasonable level.

it seemed that everyone in Eastern Europe had just lost every sense of dignity in the pursuit of dollars

It is understandable.
After a poor life in USSR - where anything imported from the West was almost idolized (plastic bags, jeans, etc...)

I had believed that Eastern Europeans were clever people, idealistic about socialism for the most part

George Orwell coined a great term - doublethink.
In public people were idealistic about socialism, but secretly they hated it.

Anyway - if you lived in SU you at least partially had to be a crook.
There were long queues and deficits in shops - many necessary goods were hard to obtain.
So friends or acquitances who worked in distribution were very valuable.
You could bribe them and get the goods you needed.
Stealing from kolkhozes also was popular (my parents did it when they worked there - their pay was not great and they could get food without standing in a long queue).
If you knew a mechanic - you also could get parts for your car much easier.
This so-called "blat" was everywhere.

So - naturally - people continued to act the same way after Soviet Union collapsed.
In capitalist economy - these actions are corruption.
In soviet socialist economy these helped people to survive.

I saw some families living in squalor. I would not surprise me if these places were deliberately abandoned on purpose, by everyone in power.

At least in Daugavpils mostly russians are in power.

and as a source of manpower for jobs that are hard to fill in Western Europe

And Latvian companies import even cheaper workers from Ukraine and Belarus.
(Latvia also is attractive for them, because they have more rights (at least compared to Belarus) and they can speak Russian here)

or repatriated to Russia in a dignified way

To get most of Russians living here to move to Russia - you need a different process called "forced deportation" - because they simply do not want to go there - life here is better - most of people who wanted to live in Russia are already there.

Those who want to leave - go in the opposite direction - to the EU.
(Some of Russians I know work in Ireland and UK - and they say that they are not stupid to go to Russia - EU is much better).

Originally Posted by nulle

Anyway - if you lived in SU you at least partially had to be a crook.
There were long queues and deficits in shops - many necessary goods were hard to obtain.
So friends or acquitances who worked in distribution were very valuable.
You could bribe them and get the goods you needed.
Stealing from kolkhozes also was popular (my parents did it when they worked there - their pay was not great and they could get food without standing in a long queue).
If you knew a mechanic - you also could get parts for your car much easier.
This so-called "blat" was everywhere.

I've just remembered funny Soviet short film about beefy factory worker who is trying to steal an engine from his workplace and skinny schoolboy who ruins his plans: