Pavel Durov, Founder of VK sells and moves to US "VK in the hands of Putin"?

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CEO Of “Russian Facebook” Says He Was Fired And That The Social Network Is Now In The Hands Of Putin Allies
http://www.buzzfeed.com/miriamelder/...that-the-socia

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I wonder what the Russian internet thinks about this?
American media is reporting that Durov sold all his shares in VKontakte and moved to the USA.

• This could be either more or less true, which wouldn't surprise me...
• Or it could be US media on a Russophobic trip and spinning up a disagreement within Vkontakte, or a tax problem that made Durov angry with Russia and deciding to move.

Or any combination of the above... What do people think, and what does Russian media and bloggers write about it?

Durov has indeed left Russia and said it is 'incompatible' with IT business.
Despite what he has already said or might say in the future, this whole conflict is the conflict between the former management (Durov) and the shareholders. No politics in here, just business. I think that Durov was simply 'out of class' here. A rather simple-minded IT nouveau-riche tried to do business with figures like Sechin and Usmanov. The end was rather predictable.

I forgot to ask in the first post - is there any truth to his claims that VKontakte is fully monitored by the Russian state - like Facebook is just routinely stored and monitored by the NSA in the US?

What do you think? I am hoping that Russia is a bit better than the US in this respect.

Did Durov actually say that, or are they putting words in his mouth and trying to spin this up to somehing it's not?

Or do you think he has inside info about this?

Usmanov - what a creep! I read his Wiki page in English. Apparently he was a criminal already in 1981 and it's been escalating ever since. I suppose he couldn't care less about the people's personal data. In three wildly differing political climates between then and now, he manages to weasle his way to the top in each one! I bet thousands of Russians are voting Communist purely because of people like this. My perception of him is that he's nothing but an opportunist and thief, but a clever one. Anyone who gets that rich, that fast without inventing anything or doing honest work, is a crook.

«Я не в России и не планирую возвращаться. К сожалению, эта страна несовместима с интернет-бизнесом в настоящее время», — сообщил Дуров корреспондентам портала.

He is right.
His problem is that he is a talented person, and Putin's Russia is not meant to be a place for talented persons. That ending was inevitable.
Sad, but true.

Here are details:

«Судя по новостям, в результате моего публичного отказа на прошлой неделе сегодня меня уволили с должности генерального директора ВКонтакте. Интересно, что у акционеров не хватило смелости сделать это прямо и о своем загадочном увольнении я узнаю из прессы.

Как сообщается, совет директоров ВКонтакте сегодня *внезапно* обнаружил, что отзыв моего заявления об уходе с поста генерального директора 3 апреля (который они до этого публично приняли) оказался оформлен "не по всем правилам", поэтому я автоматически освобождаюсь от должности. Насколько я понимаю, эта непрозрачная позиция является общей для всех акционеров.

Таким образом, сегодня ВКонтакте переходит под полный контроль Игоря Сечина и Алишера Усманова. Наверное, в российских условиях нечто подобное было неизбежно, но я рад, что мы продержались 7 с половиной лет. Мы многое успели. И часть того, что было сделано, уже не обратить вспять.»

Источник: https://vk.com/durov?w=wall1_45624

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Originally Posted by RedFox

His problem is that he is a talented person

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Can you elaborate a bit about his 'talent'? How much talent is needed to copy&paste Facebook?

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Originally Posted by Hanna

I forgot to ask in the first post - is there any truth to his claims that VKontakte is fully monitored by the Russian state - like Facebook is just routinely stored and monitored by the NSA in the US?

What do you think? I am hoping that Russia is a bit better than the US in this respect.

Did Durov actually say that, or are they putting words in his mouth and trying to spin this up to somehing it's not?

Or do you think he has inside info about this?

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Я не знаю, говорил ли он что-нибудь насчёт мониторинга. Но о том, что государство пытается принудить VK к введению цензуры, он писал следующее:

«13 марта 2014 года Прокуратура потребовала от меня закрыть антикоррупционную группу Алексея Навального под угрозой блокировки ВКонтакте. Но я не закрыл эту группу в декабре 2011 года и, разумеется, не закрыл сейчас.

За прошедшие недели на меня оказывалось давление с разных сторон. Самыми разными методами мне удалось выиграть больше месяца, но сейчас настала пора сказать – ни я, ни моя команда не собираемся осуществлять политическую цензуру. Мы не будем удалять ни антикоррупционное сообщество Навального, ни сотни других сообществ, блокировки которых от нас требуют. Свобода распространения информации – неотъемлемое право постиндустриального общества. Это право, без которого существование ВКонтакте не имеет смысла.»

«13 декабря 2013 года ФСБ потребовала от нас выдать личные данные организаторов групп Евромайдана. Нашим ответом был и остается категорический отказ – юрисдикция России не распространяется на украинских пользователей ВКонтакте. Выдача личных данных украинцев российским властям была бы не только нарушением закона, но и предательством всех тех миллионов жителей Украины, которые нам доверились.

В процессе мне пришлось пожертвовать многим. В частности, я продал свою долю ВКонтакте, так как ее наличие могло помешать мне принимать правильные решения. Но я ни о чем не жалею – защита личных данных людей стоит этого и намного большего. С декабря 2013 года у меня нет собственности, но у меня осталось нечто более важное – чистая совесть и идеалы, которые я готов защищать.»

(Это самые недавние сообщения. В прошлом году Дуров также высказывался по этому поводу.)

Вся эта цензура и мониторинг появились в России за последние два года. Ранее государству не было дела до интернета.

(weeping openly) Yes, Pavel Durov is a great defender of the freedom of speech in Russia!

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Can you elaborate a bit about his 'talent'? How much talent is needed to copy&paste Facebook?

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Facebook is just a bunch of unusable crap, while VK is one of the most comfortable and usable blogging platform. If you say it's just copy&paste, can anyone, please, copy & paste Google and Twitter in the same way?

Хорошие художники копируют, великие художники воруют.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

Facebook is just a bunch of unusable crap, while VK is one of the most comfortable and usable blogging platform. If you say it's just copy&paste, can anyone, please, copy & paste Google and Twitter in the same way?

Хорошие художники копируют, великие художники воруют.

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OMG, Are you trolling now or do you really think that VK differs in any way from FB in the amounts of stupidity and unusable crap? :lol2:

Seriously though, VK *IS* originally a copy&paste from FB. Even design similarities are not coincidental.
https://vk.com/topic-23616160_26763621

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Originally Posted by Ramil

OMG, Are you trolling now or do you really think that VK differs in any way from FB in the amounts of stupidity and unusable crap? :lol2:

Seriously though, VK *IS* originally a copy&paste from FB. Even design similarities are not coincidental.
https://vk.com/topic-23616160_26763621

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I think, creating a social network, that is "a place where a person can chat with friends, share some photos and play a few stuipid games", is not a rocket science. No big deal. But in the 21st century that task becomes crazy impossible because of lots of "modern" "designers" doing their best in developing "new" "user" "experience".

I do not want to watch that cryptic postmodern art which is called Facebook for some reason. I just want to share dumned photos.

So yes... maybe Durov copied and pasted all the way. But that fact is VK remains usable and FB does not.

Personally, I don't give a sh.t about any social network. I can't imagine why people are so obsessed with them. I call it 'online exhibitionism'. If VK, FB or any other network suddenly disappears tomorrow I wouldn't even notice. I enjoy my relative anonymity and prefer it stays this way.

Back to the topic: Durov's démarche is not about the freedom of speech. It's about his failure to comply to the shareholders' expectations.

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It's about his failure to comply to the shareholders' expectations...

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...which were posed as the tricks of omnipresent Putin. That's all.

My personal opinion is that vkontakte is dead without pirate content. They don't fight against it (and sometimes that's good, because I like to watch Soviet movies there, especially if I need just a quote). But the reality is different. Copyright sharks don't sleep. I have heard they want to force vkontakte use special software to prevent publishing or/and spreading pirate content on the site. If they realize this idea, vkontakte loses lots of its users.

Paul. FYI: :)
http://rutracker.org

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Personally, I don't give a sh.t about any social network. I can't imagine why people are so obsessed with them. I call it 'online exhibitionism'. If VK, FB or any other network suddenly disappears tomorrow I wouldn't even notice. I enjoy my relative anonymity and prefer it stays this way.

Back to the topic: Durov's démarche is not about the freedom of speech. It's about his failure to comply to the shareholders' expectations.

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So you think he just more or less made up an accusation designed to do maximum damage and help his emigration to the USA?

(I think the more you blackpaint Putin, the better chance to get on the fast track to US or UK citizenship, if you are Russian and have money...

I agree with you about social network. All it seems to do is to allow people you know to keep tabs on you, and complain that you are not "liking" their new home designs, kids or cats enough... Bragging is tiresome and I don't always have cool comments in response to meaningless greetings. I much prefer to call or email people. Plus - we now know (as I always suspected) that the information will sit on servers in the USA indefinitely.

Seems insane to criticize organisations like the STASI or KGB, and then voluntarily send all your personal likes and dislikes, political views, friendships and travel plans straight to where the CIA can read it and build a profile on you that the most sinister spying chief would drool at. STASI would have hit jackpot if they'd been able to get 10% of the info that people today post on Facebook without flinching.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Paul. FYI: :)
http://rutracker.org

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rutracker is almost dead. nnm-club.me :)

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Originally Posted by Hanna

So you think he just more or less made up an accusation designed to do maximum damage and help his emigration to the USA?

(I think the more you blackpaint Putin, the better chance to get on the fast track to US or UK citizenship, if you are Russian and have money...

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If you were Durov and you were leaving Russia for good what would you have prefererd to be - 'a failed CEO' or a 'political dissident whose business was unfairly taken away for your views'?

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Originally Posted by RedFox

«13 марта 2014 года Прокуратура потребовала от меня закрыть антикоррупционную группу Алексея Навального под угрозой блокировки ВКонтакте. Но я не закрыл эту группу в декабре 2011 года и, разумеется, не закрыл сейчас.

За прошедшие недели на меня оказывалось давление с разных сторон. Самыми разными методами мне удалось выиграть больше месяца, но сейчас настала пора сказать – ни я, ни моя команда не собираемся осуществлять политическую цензуру. Мы не будем удалять ни антикоррупционное сообщество Навального, ни сотни других сообществ, блокировки которых от нас требуют. Свобода распространения информации – неотъемлемое право постиндустриального общества. Это право, без которого существование ВКонтакте не имеет смысла.»

«13 декабря 2013 года ФСБ потребовала от нас выдать личные данные организаторов групп Евромайдана. Нашим ответом был и остается категорический отказ – юрисдикция России не распространяется на украинских пользователей ВКонтакте. Выдача личных данных украинцев российским властям была бы не только нарушением закона, но и предательством всех тех миллионов жителей Украины, которые нам доверились.

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That is WRONG. If Durov tried to prevent FSB from getting the details of Euromaidan organisers from Vkontakte, then he did right.

Also, I know that lots of people here don't like Navalny - but surely he should have the right to set up a group on VK if he wants.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

rutracker is almost dead. nnm-club.me :)

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w00t! I love Rutracker. What are you talking about?

Thank you too this awesome tracker for being uncensored, always having clean versions of obscure software I want, awesome music rips and for helping me build up my digital collection of Russian films - without being ratio fascists.

It's a very, very good thing that they don't have English translations of Rutracker. The minute they did, US music and film industries would declare world war III on Russia until it was closed down.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

w00t! I love Rutracker. What are you talking about?

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Rutracker пытается балансировать между интересами сообщества и интересами держателей авторских прав. Админы часто удаляют контент по жалобам от копирастов.
Такая позиция говорит о том, что админы боятся... чего-то.

Мне кажется, копирасты скоро добьются прекращения работы этого сайта.

Для полноты картины относительно Дурова... мнение популярного блоггера Funt-а:

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По поводу Павла Дурова я лишь имею сказать, что он фантастический дурак, потерявшийся в пространстве. Найти мутных инвесторов, замазаться с ними, ИЗНАЧАЛЬНО оставив им 80% своего родного проекта, потом карнавально поднимать себе "зарплату", устраивать выходки с разбрасыванием денег с балкона своего офиса (находящегося в шикарном месте в центре Петербурга), при этом изображать себя чуть ли не революционером, заработав большие деньги именно в РФ и именно в условиях полного отсутствия всяких намёков на революцию. Наконец, когда дурака решили убрать, он начал проповеди за духовность, после чего устроил маскарад с первоапрельскими шуточными заявлениями об уходе. В конце концов хлопнул дверью, обругав сраную рашку, хотя вконтакт — это и есть сраная рашка. В том же смысле, в каком МакДональдс — это и есть Америка. И если директор МакДональдса начнёт жаловаться на отсталую Пиндосию, где невозможно производить фастфуд так, как ему нравится, имея при этом миллионы ресторанов в этой самой Пиндосии и баснословные прибыли — его просто упекут в психушку или организуют педофильский скандал на следующий же день. А уж за публичную поддержку СССР в условиях холодной войны (примерно как Дуров поддержал Евромайдан) просто сразу прикопают. Соберется совет директоров, смущённый кашель, тишина, наконец один встаёт: "Паш, ты прости, ничего личного, но это... В общем, мы дальше решили без тебя".

Крупный бизнес всегда срастается с государством, и крупный бизнес, нелояльный государству и открыто посылающий его к чёртовой матери — это фантастика. И уж конечно Дуров ничего с таким подходом не сделает на Западе. Дурака с его вульгарным "либертарианьством" уберут от греха подальше на дальних подступах. Ну или добрый дядя завербует — "бороться за свободу слова в Российской Федерации".

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Да в том-то и дело, что "феномен великого и гениального Павла Дурова" сильно преувеличен. Он обычный долбодятел, попавший в струю на волне FB. Ничем не отметился, кроме описанных выходок с разбрасыванием денег и наездом (буквально, на автомобиле) на сотрудника ДПС, после чего его пришлось отмазывать друзьям из ФСБ.
Судьба Дурова мне напомнила судьбу Чичваркина и "Евросети". Почти то же самое. Только Чичваркин был зиц-председатель, никто. А может и Дуров был таким же, кто его знает.

I thought a bit more about this:

If FSB had to actually ASK Vkontakte about the details for the Euromaidan people, then that is actually GOOD from the perspective that they don't automatically have the information.

The CIA wouldn't have to ask anyone. The information already sits on a server with the NSA.

So Russia is nowhere near where the USA is. I still think it's wrong though - these people were not even in Russia. They were Ukrainians in Ukraine, so it was not Russia's business.

The question of interest is - is Russia going to try to emulate what the USA has done, or settle for something more manual, less obtrusive, and hopefully regulated by strict laws.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

So Russia is nowhere near where the USA is. I still think it's wrong though - these people were not even in Russia. They were Ukrainians in Ukraine, so it was not Russia's business.

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Juridically, that's wrong. If a person acts on a server which is located in Russia, de jure this person falls under the Russian laws. There is the same practice all over the world.

What, you mean because VKs servers were in Russia, they fell under Russian law, even if they were Ukrainians in Ukraine? I see the logic but I disagree with it.

If anyone ever plans to start a revolution over social media: Please get a trusted VPN first, in a different country than where you live. Pay with a non-traceable method, like bitcoin and don't use your real name! :good:

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I see the logic but I disagree with it.

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It doesn't matter you agree or disagree. You must humble yourself, because that's a general (worldwide) rule.

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Originally Posted by Paul G.

It doesn't matter you agree or disagree. You must humble yourself, because that's a general (worldwide) rule.

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Do not forget to treat forum members with respect, according to our forum rules.

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Originally Posted by Hanna

What, you mean because VKs servers were in Russia, they fell under Russian law, even if they were Ukrainians in Ukraine? I see the logic but I disagree with it.

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As Paul said, there aren't anything to agree or disagree. Just the law.

I've had a look at the VK's User Agreement. It says the following:

2.2. Все права на Сайт в целом и на использование сетевого адреса (доменного имени) vk.com принадлежат Администрации Сайта. Последняя предоставляет доступ к Сайту всем заинтересованным лицам в соответствии с настоящими Правилами и действующим законодательством Российской Федерации.

3.1. Под Администрацией Сайта ВКонтакте (ранее и далее – Администрация Сайта, Администрация) в настоящих Правилах и иных специальных документах, размещенных на Сайте, понимается Общество с ограниченной ответственностью «В Контакте», юридическое лицо, созданное по законодательству Российской Федерации и зарегистрированное по адресу: 191040, Санкт-Петербург, Лиговский пр., д. 61, литер А.

VK Administration is a legal entity registered under the jurisdiction of Russia. So it must act in accordance with Russian laws.
Durov can argue that there is no law which obliges them to disclose private user information to the State in that situation (court's decision required etc). But if he argues that "we cannot betray our Ukrainian users", that is pointless.

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Originally Posted by RedFox

As Paul said, there aren't anything to agree or disagree. Just the law.

I've had a look at the VK's User Agreement. It says the following:

2.2. Все права на Сайт в целом и на использование сетевого адреса (доменного имени) vk.com принадлежат Администрации Сайта. Последняя предоставляет доступ к Сайту всем заинтересованным лицам в соответствии с настоящими Правилами и действующим законодательством Российской Федерации.

3.1. Под Администрацией Сайта ВКонтакте (ранее и далее – Администрация Сайта, Администрация) в настоящих Правилах и иных специальных документах, размещенных на Сайте, понимается Общество с ограниченной ответственностью «В Контакте», юридическое лицо, созданное по законодательству Российской Федерации и зарегистрированное по адресу: 191040, Санкт-Петербург, Лиговский пр., д. 61, литер А.

VK Administration is a legal entity registered under the jurisdiction of Russia. So it must act in accordance with Russian laws.
Durov can argue that there is no law which obliges them to disclose private user information to the State in that situation (court's decision required etc). But if he argues that "we cannot betray our Ukrainian users", that is pointless.

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Ok, I get that - but what Russia did in this instance is similar to what the US does with Facebook, which I object to.
I.e. they abuse the fact that Facebook's main servers are in the USA to spy on users, for example Europeans and Canadians.

Here, Russia takes advantage of the fact that VKs servers happen to be in Russia, to spy on what Ukrainians do in Ukraine... I don't agree with that. If Russia needs to keep track of terrorists within their own borders, that's one thing. But this is only one step down from the routine spying that the USA does.

And I am worried that there will be some kind of "cold war escalation" online and every country will feel they must follow in the footsteps of the USA and start spying on their own citizens and perceived enemies online.
That seems to be what Russia is doing in this case. It's not like Euromaidan was planning to invade Russia. They were not a threat to Russia.

Russian law is to impinge on Russians' rights and Ukrainians', whether in Russia or Ukraine. There's also recent news of a likely ban on Facebook and Twitter?

There is considerable progress on more widespread denial of rights on Russian citizens. Of course, they want to read what Ukrainians are saying on vk. Kremlin-friendly oligarchs also control vk now.

VK (social network) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and a trio of Russian investors, Vyacheslav Mirilashvili ( Mikhael Mirilashvili's family) and Lev Leviev (not from Africa-Israel Investments),[11] own 60%, 10% and 10% respectively.[12] The company is now completely owned by offshore firm Doraview Limited, based in the British Virgin Islands

Head of Russia’s largest social network VKontakte leaves his post — RT News
Today VKontakte was transferred under the full control of Igor Sechin and Alisher Usmanov,” Durov said, referring to a recent rift the company had with authorities.

Putin allies take over Russia’s Facebook; founder ousted by Kremlin - The Margin - MarketWatch
Sechin and Usmanov are no strangers to the Kremlin and have close ties to the Russian elite. Sechin is a top boss at state-owned oil company Rosneft and Putin’s former deputy chief of staff. Usmanov, the richest man in Russia according to Forbes’ billionaire list, made his fortune in the iron-ore and steel business, and is now a major investor in telecom and media firms such as Megaphone (Russia’s second-largest phone operator), Kommersant (one of Russia’s biggest business dailies) and Facebook.

VKontakte CEO ousted in favour of Putin allies

Just like the NSA? Russia is just as bad as the U.S. but the sugarcoating one can read about it (i.e. the Kremlin/security/surveillance etc.) is downright laughable.

I'm bumping this because of a recent report on Durov. He's in 'exile' now. Russia is a great place for having similar rights to the West! :D

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/te...ses-exile.html

I also had a good chuckle reading the previous posts. Of course, the West has problems with democracy - they are hypocritical but at least, many people note this and criticize it. But, with regards to Russia, both those who live there and even Westerners who are Kremlin/Putin apologists make excuses or defend Russia's actions. Which is in complete contradiction when they single out America for the same faults/flaws. HENCE, the example of the attitude and mentality of illogical and unrational thinking. Спасибо.

Without further adieu, let's look at these findings:
VK (social networking website) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In January 2014, VK's founder Pavel Durov sold his 12% stake in the company to the CEO of Megafon, which is controlled by Alisher Usmanov. Following the deal, Usmanov and his allies control around 52% of the company.[12] Shortly thereafter, the CEO of Megafon, sold his 12% stake to Mail.ru, thus allowing mail.ru to consolidate their controlling stake of 52% in VK.[13]

On September 16, 2014, the Mail.ru group bought the remaining 48% stake of VK from Blesmir Development and Palagon, thus becoming the sole proprietor of the social network.


“Russian Facebook” founder flees country after being forced out as CEO | Ars Technica


https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ing-them.shtml


https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...kontakte.shtml

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...andidate.shtml

Bottom line: Durov refused to censor content or provide private details so he was forced out of controlling interest. The Kremlin is acting more like the West everyone hates here – controlling social networks and internet – but many people who excuse Russia's actions are ignorant or indifferent to these facts. No surprise, though.

Russian Email Giant Takes Over VKontakte, 'Russia's Facebook'

How Putin's cronies seized control of Russia's Facebook | The Verge

Mail.Ru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Putin Goes After Bloggers, Not Profits | Opinion | The Moscow Times

In Front of Putin, Internet Titans Lose Their Nerve | Opinion | The Moscow Times

Russians could assert having freedoms once upon a time, regarding the internet, but the Kremlin clamps down nowadays and if they really want to, they pursue censorship and removing freedoms. So, concentrated media, propaganda, spying on internet users and controlling their expression (mostly, those who have different or contrary/opposing ideas - they don't care about zombies who parrot the same or significantly similar rhetoric).

For all the Kremlin's anti-West talk, they are taking the same playbook and moving it up a notch! :D

Since Durov handed over control of VKontakte to Putin's crony Kremlin friends, the social networking company is now controlled and monitored by the FSB.

http://zn.ua/TECHNOLOGIES/vkontakte-...y-152462_.html
http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/...ml&prev=search
''ВКонтакте'', Яндекс и Мail.Ru начали ''сливать'' ФСБ данные о своих пользователях | Украинская правда
Павел Дуров заявил о давлении на него со стороны ФСБ и Генпрокуратуры, которые требуют заблокировать ряд сообществ - Газета.Ru | Общество

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...s-control.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanna

That is WRONG. If Durov tried to prevent FSB from getting the details of Euromaidan organisers from Vkontakte, then he did right.

Also, I know that lots of people here don't like Navalny - but surely he should have the right to set up a group on VK if he wants.

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Durov had a choice to make. He made it and he moved to the US. There are a few possibilites:

1. He refused to release the personal content of Euromaidan organizers to the FSB because:
---- A. He supported the planned coup.
---- B. He was a dreamer like Snowden.
2. He knew he was outgunned by Sechin and Usmanov and he wanted an easy out.
3. It's an April Fools day scam and he wanted pro-Putin supporters to have more than 50% control of VK (compensation to be found later in a Swiss bank account).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 14Russian

I also had a good chuckle reading the previous posts. Of course, the West has problems with democracy - they are hypocritical but at least, many people note this and criticize it. But, with regards to Russia, both those who live there and even Westerners who are Kremlin/Putin apologists make excuses or defend Russia's actions. Which is in complete contradiction when they single out America for the same faults/flaws. HENCE, the example of the attitude and mentality of illogical and unrational thinking. Спасибо.

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I don't see any reason to be an apologist. And I don't see anything to excuse or defend.
When Snowden violated our National Security and exposed the NSA program, President Putin called PRISM a "workable idea". And I agree.
Your argument fails by assuming that everyone at the forum is a civil rights activist that denounces espionage for the sake of National Security interests. That wouldn't be me.
Imo, requesting personal content of Euromaidan organizers in Ukraine was a reasonable request. And as Hanna pointed out, if the information was already available, they wouldn't need to make that request.
For whatever reasons, Durov failed to support the FSB and the National Security interests of his country. So now he's living in self-proclaimed exile in the country of his choice - a country where there is no internet privacy, period.
My take - if you're not a threat to your own country or a criminal then you don't have anything to hide.
I don't have much respect for Durov or Snowden.

Wow, I even had no idea about those FSB search activities at all! That's actually pushing the limits of the good and evil. But here's the funny thing, if the intelligence service (!) of a certain country is so curious about ordinary people in another country, who did nothing apart from overthrowing their dictator president's rule, then would it be so hard to figure out who had been behind that dictator president for all those years prior to the mentioned events? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

.I don't see any reason to be an apologist. And I don't see anything to excuse or defend.
When Snowden violated our National Security and exposed the NSA program, President Putin called PRISM a "workable idea". And I agree.
Your argument fails by assuming that everyone at the forum is a civil rights activist that denounces espionage for the sake of National Security interests. That wouldn't be me.
Imo, requesting personal content of Euromaidan organizers in Ukraine was a reasonable request. And as Hanna pointed out, if the information was already available, they wouldn't need to make that request.
For whatever reasons, Durov failed to support the FSB and the National Security interests of his country. So now he's living in self-proclaimed exile in the country of his choice - a country where there is no internet privacy, period.
My take - if you're not a threat to your own country or a criminal then you don't have anything to hide.
I don't have much respect for Durov or Snowden.

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(Вытерто. Л.) You also don't seem to understand what happened with Durov and VK. If you would have bothered to read the articles I posted, you'd know that the FSB practically 'own' VK and have access to people's accounts. Durov didn't want to allow the government to do this and decided to leave when he risked arrest and seizure. I am not defending him since he's probably just a businessman who is trying to pretend a high moral ground but what is important here is that Russia has infiltrated information that ordinary people have which is probably a violation somewhere? Apologists like yourself like to portray Russia as somehow more 'moral' or just than the United States but this is another proof that these two countries have more in common than you would like to admit.

Edit: 'Imo, requesting personal content of Euromaidan organizers in Ukraine was a reasonable request.' - Okay, Mr. Fascist.... LOL! So, I guess freedoms in the USA are important but not anywhere else? Okay, duly noted. It's peculiar that Putin supporters are often hypocrites when you get down to the nitty gritty.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/te...ses-exile.html
"The Internet was once seen as a way to diversify Russia’s economy beyond oil. When VKontakte started in 2006, Mr. Durov says, he envisioned his country as a tax-free and libertarian utopia for technologists.

“The best thing about Russia at that time was the Internet sphere was completely not regulated,” he said. “In some ways, it was more liberal than the United States.”

Now the Internet is viewed with suspicion by Mr. Putin, who has called it a “C.I.A. project” and has taken steps to insulate Russia from the rest of the digital world. One leading Russian activist recently said the government was on a “campaign to shut down the Internet.”"

http://calvertjournal.com/news/show/...to-the-kremlin

It's funny that Putin has actually made the internet worse for Russians yet many support him in droves. Quite the ironic but illogical reality there.