Thread: Operation Iraqi Freedom

what it would contain..

Please, take it from someone who has read too much about people's opinions about this conflict....

Stick to the subject of this forum. ie:helping each other!

If you want to talk about this sort of thing i can give you a link that will make this place seem like haven from all the bulls**t that's happening in the ME!

piehunt,
show them.
I support you up in this.

Russian in Latin:
Kto hochet uchastvovat v goriachih realnih bitvah, mojet naity so-otvetstvuiuschiy forum v Internete.
Mogu dat perehod jelauschim.

This place is sent you from heaven, both the English-speaking studying Russian and the Russians studying English. And, although it is a good idea to touch any subjects, don't turn yourself into fighters - it's too easy and one may does not notice it has happened.
Peace!

Oh, forgot!

My personal opinion: The war is always a sign of weakness. Guess whose?

Shhh let's keep the forum quiet for a week or two before we start another battle.

Okay, but I would go with "tssss"

I think that anti war people don't back up their arguments at all. Every argument they have can be discredited by the pro war people. I won't go on because it's all been said so far in this thread.

I would also like to say that any anti war protesters (and I speak specifically about the UK here) who could but did not vote in the last general elections has absolutely no right whatsoever to criticize the government (obviously the schoolkids couldn't vote but they are either new age hippy types who are against war full stop no matter how valid and useful it is- or they are dossers getting out of double maths) People only have their right to free speech because we are a democracy, so they should have voted in the last elections instead of protesting now. I acknowledge that many anti war protesters did vote and I respect their opinions but think that they are misguided.

Well, first of all your first argument can be completely said about the other half. In fact, I think it's pointless and stupid to make comments like that which can easily be said in reverse. Most people, regardless of whether or no they support or oppose something, are just parroting what they hear from others. But I should add that absolutely none of pro-war's arguments haven't been discredited by me on this board so far. You can bother to read the threads and see for yourself.

By the way, what do general elections have to do with anything? 90% of Great Britain was consistently against invading Iraq. If your country is so democratic then why did it completely ignore the overwhelming will of the majority of England's populace? It shouldn't matter what people were elected or who voted for them, they are supposed to be representing what the people in their districts want. Who would an anti-war protester vote for anyway? If the UK is anything like the US most of them probably would have voted Labour Party. And which party does the most outspoken hawk in this whole affair, Tony Blair, belong to again?

This whole war wasn't a product of a bunch of people failing to vote. It was a failure on the part of government in its supposed role of obeying democratic demand.

I haven't got much time right now, maybe I'll write more tomorrow, but just a quick comment: abour half of the UK's population support the war. Not 10%.

I was quoting statistics BEFORE the war. "90% of Great Britain was consistently against invading Iraq" not "90% of Great Britain is against the ongoing invasion of Iraq." Opposition to a war always goes down once that country's troops are involved, probably because of the myth that it lowers troop morale. However, I've heard many veterans say the soldiers are shielded from domestic news and television and that the troops don't care one way or the other about public support or opposition, and that if anything publicly opposing a war brings the soldiers home faster by holding the government accountable.

By the way, this thread has 88 replies and is not going anywhere. When it gets to 90 I am locking it so make the last two count.

Originally Posted by Rahul

Oh please, stop with the drama. Mike would repulse the

conservative founding fathers with his anarchist extreme left wing views. And

I'm not making that up either.

Found some interesting quotes by Thomas Jefferson, one of our "conservative

founding fathers:"

The happiness and prosperity of our citizens is the only legitimate object of

government.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves

and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, the very first

object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether

we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a

government, I should not hesitate for a moment to prefer the latter.

I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many

parasites living on the labor of the industrious.

I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be

trusted to govern themselves without a master.

Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will

they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material

abundance without character is the path of destruction.

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being

as his Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classified with the fable of

the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the

dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with

this artificial scaffolding and restore to us the primitive and genuine

doctrines of this most venerated Reformer of human errors.

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one,

he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than

standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has

set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the

banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs. If the American

people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by

inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up

around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children

will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

Some by the "conservative founding father" Benjamin Franklin:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will

deserve neither and lose both.

And where is the Prince who can afford to so cover his country with troops for

its defense, as that ten thousand men descending from the clouds, might not in

many places do an infinite deal of mischief, before a force could be brought

together to repel them?

Even peace may be purchased at too high a price.

He does not possess wealth; it possesses him.

The greatest monarch on the proudest throne is obliged to sit upon his own

arse.

The strictest law sometimes becomes the severest injustice.

Savages we call them because their manners differ from ours.

Some by the "conservative founding father" Thomas Paine:

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance

of being right.

The instant formal government is abolished, society begins to act. A general

association takes place, and common interest produces common security.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best stage,

is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.

To say that any people are not fit for freedom, is to make poverty their choice, and to say they had rather be loaded with taxes than not.

From such beginnings of governments, what could be expected, but a continual system of war and extortion?

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

Some by the "conservative founding father" James Madison

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse.

The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.

Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.

Originally Posted by mike

Well, first of all your first argument can be completely said about the other half. In fact, I think it's pointless and stupid to make comments like that which can easily be said in reverse. Most people, regardless of whether or no they support or oppose something, are just parroting what they hear from others. But I should add that absolutely none of pro-war's arguments haven't been discredited by me on this board so far. You can bother to read the threads and see for yourself.

Mike I can easy say the same thing about discrediting your comments on the board so far. Before you get your pride hurt and click the edit button to pursue this, I think we should take a look at the following post made by you:

(Besides this is the only comment I have heard you make on this forum so far that that hasn't been full of (something nasty and smelly)...

Originally Posted by mike

Shhh let's keep the forum quiet for a week or two before we start another battle.

I agree. I think the people who cared to comment on the subject did and expressed their opinions to a great extent. If they didn't and / or weren't able to do it in 6 pages of information I would just say tuff.

Mike I ask of you to please not go over ground already talked about (or close to) in this forum. Please follow your own advice from your previous comment. If you wont please do it for my sake because I have a huge headache from this.

The bottom line is there is a war in Iraq. Instead of arguing and nonsence we should be concerned with what we can do. I don't think any of us here make decisions concerning this conflict. The quesiton you should be asking yourself is, "What can I do to help?" There is great need for aid and many different things. Find your own way to help. Or perhaps you would rather keep arguing and persuing something that is fruitless and in the end is foolishness because it led to nothing.

Geesh I hope this is the last message in the post. If not maybe our friend should post the retard picture again.

It's almost over!