Thread: Members of Ukrainian parliament fight over Russian language

Originally Posted by KLAPA

The "Allies" (read that USA, UK, Canada, et al) left Europe after four years

Really?!
American troups are still in Europe, their geographic distribution has broadened for the last 20 years. They even conduct wars in Europe (recall Yugoslavia) against those who refuse to place their troops on their land.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Really?!
American troups are still in Europe, their geographic distribution has broadened for the last 20 years. They even conduct wars in Europe (recall Yugoslavia) against those who refuse to place their troops on their land.

Yep - yet they are still there at the behest of the "host country" - and they do not arbitrarily - and with military force - IMPOSE a government on those countries such as the Russian's did. They do not take things from those counties - they guard the countries against the CONTINUED threat of the Russian's.

Stalin (and thus Russia) even went so far as to OUTLAW letters of the Ukrainian alphabet!

It is difficult for me to understand how Russian's cannot understand the "hard feelings" these people have.

It is also difficult for me to understand WHY Russian's - being the smart and articulate people that they are - continually seem to need to be "led" - by despots like Putin.

Here in the USA - and all over Europe - we don't have a $1000 penalty for protest marches such as has been recently implemented by the "rubber stamp" Duma for CZAR Putin and his KGB cronies.

Also here and in Europe - the "state" does not "own" the media like they do in Russia - or should I say "Gazpromia". Yes - you might say America or Europe is "owned" by corporations - but it is not just one single corporation like it is in Russia. When any corporation would challenge Putin and Gazprom - well - they just change the laws (think LukOil here) and the "state" simply steals the assets of the "lawbreaker".

Nobody trusts you - and for good reason! So why would they trust their "indigenous Russian speakers" that were installed by the Soviet invader?

Originally Posted by KLAPA

Stalin (and thus Russia) even went so far as to OUTLAW letters of the Ukrainian alphabet!

The official language of USSR was Ukrainian... Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Where there any letters taken out of Ukrainian by law? Not sure, but maybe the Ukrainian members of this forum would explain..

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The official language of USSR was Ukrainian

what do you mean? what about Russian?

Originally Posted by LXNDR

what do you mean? what about Russian?

The official language of the Ukrainian SSR was officially Ukrainian. As much as the official language of the Uzbek SSR was Uzbek. Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Russian was the only official language of the United Soviet Socialist Republics.

Originally Posted by KLAPA

Yep - yet they are still there at the behest of the "host country" - and they do not arbitrarily - and with military force - IMPOSE a government on those countries such as the Russian's did. They do not take things from those counties - they guard the countries against the CONTINUED threat of the Russian's.

Stalin (and thus Russia) even went so far as to OUTLAW letters of the Ukrainian alphabet!

It is difficult for me to understand how Russian's cannot understand the "hard feelings" these people have.

It is also difficult for me to understand WHY Russian's - being the smart and articulate people that they are - continually seem to need to be "led" - by despots like Putin.

Here in the USA - and all over Europe - we don't have a $1000 penalty for protest marches such as has been recently implemented by the "rubber stamp" Duma for CZAR Putin and his KGB cronies.

Also here and in Europe - the "state" does not "own" the media like they do in Russia - or should I say "Gazpromia". Yes - you might say America or Europe is "owned" by corporations - but it is not just one single corporation like it is in Russia. When any corporation would challenge Putin and Gazprom - well - they just change the laws (think LukOil here) and the "state" simply steals the assets of the "lawbreaker".

Nobody trusts you - and for good reason! So why would they trust their "indigenous Russian speakers" that were installed by the Soviet invader?

I will "add" here - that I know allot about the "so-called" Yugoslavia - I was stationed in northern Greece (Macedonia) in that late 70's - in a place where they called it then the "buffer zone".

Yugoslavia was a "special case". This was only a "country" because of the "iron hand" of Tito. This place - the "Balkan" - it was the crossroads of East vs. West - Slav vs. Muslim - and even orthodox vs. catholic vs. Islam. This place has been the foment of war in Europe. The only thing that made that collection of Croatia Serbia, and the rest WAS the AUTHORITARIAN regime of Tito. As soon as he died - the inevitable troubles began.

Yet the Euro's did nothing about it - nor did the Russian's - all the while the body's of the innocents were piling up.

I was very much against the US forces involvement by Madeline "NotSoBright" and the "BillKlingon" administration in that delima - I knew it to be a European problem and thought that it should be a European "fix". But the Euro's are just like a "neutered dog" and something had to be done. The USA did it!

Crap on you Russian's for what you did (or didn't do) there! You came "riding in" at the last minute after all was over pretending to "save your Slavic brother".

Where were you Russian's or the Euro's in the BEGINNING of that conflict of a nation that was essentially under your care?

Where were you? Nowhere to be found - that is "where you were".

Typical Russian.

I always like that "old Soviet saying" - that "history is never set".

Yup - you Putin robots certainly fit the mold - and you are to be feared - because you are all intelligent, talented, and seem to be brainwashed like a herd of korova.

Don't any of you "modern" Russian's remember Viktor Tsoy? Perhaps you should listen to his songs again. I would point out "печаль".

I want to say here - that I am married to a Ukrainian woman for 12 years. I have "inherited" her children and have brought them here to America - I have treated them all well. I have taken the "Russian view" in politics on many occasions - but now I have grave doubts.

Why? Because of what I see happening in Russia now - the absorption of the media by the state run Gazprom. The people are "fed" a single lunch everyday - they have no informed choices - and if they demand t - they are fined much more than they can pay.

That is what I see - and being the old "cold warrior" that I am I am glad we have many missiles pointed towards Russia and have changed my mind again to believe that Russia is truly the enemy of freedom - because their people are Korova that subjugate themselves to an authoritarian regime that will be to the detriment on mankind.

Originally Posted by KLAPA

I will "add" here - that I know allot about the "so-called" Yugoslavia - I was stationed in northern Greece (Macedonia) in that late 70's - in a place where they called it then the "buffer zone".

Yugoslavia was a "special case". This was only a "country" because of the "iron hand" of Tito. This place - the "Balkan" - it was the crossroads of East vs. West - Slav vs. Muslim - and even orthodox vs. catholic vs. Islam. This place has been the foment of war in Europe. The only thing that made that collection of Croatia Serbia, and the rest WAS the AUTHORITARIAN regime of Tito. As soon as he died - the inevitable troubles began.

[...]

Typical Russian.

I always like that "old Soviet saying" - that "history is never set".

Yup - you Putin robots certainly fit the mold - and you are to be feared - because you are all intelligent, talented, and seem to be brainwashed like a herd of korova.

Don't any of you "modern" Russian's remember Viktor Tsoy? Perhaps you should listen to his songs again. I would point out "печаль".

I want to say here - that I am married to a Ukrainian woman for 12 years. I have "inherited" her children and have brought them here to America - I have treated them all well. I have taken the "Russian view" in politics on many occasions - but now I have grave doubts.

Why? Because of what I see happening in Russia now - the absorption of the media by the state run Gazprom. The people are "fed" a single lunch everyday - they have no informed choices - and if they demand t - they are fined much more than they can pay.

That is what I see - and being the old "cold warrior" that I am I am glad we have many missiles pointed towards Russia and have changed my mind again to believe that Russia is truly the enemy of freedom - because their people are Korova that subjugate themselves to an authoritarian regime that will be to the detriment on mankind.

Ok, we get it. You don't like Russians.
Is there any valid point in this stream of consciousness? Like, on topic?

You are right - I am wrong - and I stand corrected.

I got a little emotional here - I have had a tough weekend - I had to bury my dog that has just died

I do NOT "hate" Russian's - I guess I m just a little disappointing in their actions - still I know I am not GOD - I do not attempt to judge anyone - I am just suspicious.

"On Topic" -

My wife IS an "ethnic Russian speaking" Ukrainian. She is from Zaporiska oblast - her family is from the Donbass region. They have all spoken Russian there "since there was dirt".

My wife and her family are "looked down on" by their western Ukrainian counterparts who speak "pure" Ukrainian language.

My wife is from the kholkhoz - where there was a different life. I have myself been there. They all speak Russian there - though a "mix" - they say"nye" instead of "nyet". It is a small distinction and else they speak Russki Yazike.. I have met these people and there is nothing wrong with them - they are strong - and they are not an enemy.

However - that is not like it is for most of pre-baltica - as far as I know.

These people had the "russki yazike" imposed upon them - I don't think there were many "Russian speakers" there before the imposition of the Soviet state.

This "debate" in Ukraine about language - it is just a mask to hide much deeper problems - particularly problems with corruption.

I have had problems with language in Ukraine - I brought my wife and her two children over here in 1999 - and had to have all the papers translated first from Russian to Ukrainian - and then from Ukrainian to English.

So after all of that we had to go through the American embassy in Warsaw to get everything done.

At that time - there was very little available to learn the Russian language - much less Ukrainian or Polish. So I had the PROMT software that I bought.

So - anyway - I thought I was doing a "good thing" to learn some Russian before I went to Warsaw but I had a BIG SURPRISE!

When I first met the people at the hotel - and spoke to them in Russian - one woman replied to me....

"Why do you speak Russian? You can speak anything you want here - English, Italian, or Polish, but DON'T SPEAK RUSSIAN HERE!".

So there you go - this is a real experience that I think is "on-topic".

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Ok, we get it. You don't like Russians.
Is there any valid point in this stream of consciousness? Like, on topic?

IMHO - It illustrates the dangers of combining poor education with an overdose of propaganda. Sorry but he was asking for it.

Tragic to hear that your dog died, KLAPA - perhaps you had a fight with your Russian - Ukrainian wife, or something. I still think your comments in the thread are outrageous! You are plain rude to come in here and start hollering hostile and aggressive accusations about Russians. I am sure there are plenty of places online where you can vent your feelings -- this is not the place.

But hey, let's just set up a few big ol' US Army bases in the Ukraine to teach that Russian scum to speak Ukrainian (preferably with an American accent) whether they like it or not -eh? Democracy and Human rights ftw! And throw in a few "defensive" nukes pointed at Moscow while you're at it.... Problem solved!

That seems to be just the sort of solution that you'd favour!

Originally Posted by KLAPA

Yep - yet they are still there at the behest of the "host country" - and they do not arbitrarily - and with military force - IMPOSE a government on those countries such as the Russian's did.

Was not Yugoslavian government imposed by the US in 1990s? Was not Greece government imposed by force after WWII?