Marxism Leninism as hacking God
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinhead
The only difference between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism is the addition of Lenin's statement that "Imperialism is the final Stage of Capitalism". What does this mean (explain in few words as if to a fourteen year old)? Why did I read somewhere that the original Marxism was never followed and both USSR and China resulted in a system far away from Communism?
And I am curious to know if there are any people here who still favor Communism as in USSR. Why not a poll?
Yes, the addition of Lenin's statement that "Imperialism is the final Stage of Capitalism" is the only difference between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism. This means that there is no difference, actually. The term imperialism used by Lenin is defined as "monopoly capitalism", the next "and final" stage of capitalism. That stage was not observed by Marx in the 19th century. Rather, it was observed by Lenin in the beginning of the 20th century. Lenin tried to explain why capitalism got stronger despite the expectation of Marx for its death. According to Lenin, capitalism has flourished just before its death, as Marx prescribed.
In both USSR and China, the original Marxism, being just a theory, was followed as much as possible in practice.
On the other hand, the word communism has two meanings.
First, it is a religion. As a religion, the communism has its followers even now all over the world. It includes all doctrines of Marx and Lenin for social engineering, applying violance, supremacy of social group rights over human rights.
Second, the communism is a social system which is to be established finally. In the communism as a religion, the comminusm as a social system plays the role which the paradise plays in such a religion as Christianity. The comminusm as a social system has not been ever established anywhere. Similarly, nobody has ever seen the paradise.
"Железным кнутом загоним человечество в рай" - a communist slogan.
Ordinary thoughts of a communist believer: "Those who believe in God think that the death is the only way to the paradise. Well, we can help them die and go to their paradise if they obstruct our efforts to build a paradise on the earth."
Communism is an atheistic religion. It contains some arrogance towards God: humans can control everything, the nature and the society. Now, we can realize that human's mental power is not enough even to control the software running on one computer. We can realize that human's power is too weak to control the society - that is the main reason for the collapse of the USSR.
Communists are God's hackers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Communism as a political and economical system is great! It ensures harmonious development of the society and individuals. Communism (unlike communists) eliminates classes, any kind of inequality, oppression and the state itself. It promotes common ownership of means of production and allows every member of the society to participate in decision making process in the political and economical spheres.
It also eliminates the concept of private property but, nevertheless, it declares that all possible needs of an individual should be satisfied.
In theory, communism is far more advantageous form of government than capitalism, socialism or any other -isms. The only drawback is that it doesn't work in reality. Well, presently, no. Maybe when the mankind progresses further and manages to produce enough food and energy for all it would be theoretically possible, but not now. Still, I think that sooner or later (it may take another several centuries though) we will reach the stage when communism is possible if the mankind doesn't destroy itself in the process.
Yes, in theory, the paradise is much better. The only drawback is that it doesn't exist in reality.
Humans desires are unlimited. On the one hand, that's why the paradise cannot exist in reality: the comminism as a political and economical system will never be possible. On the other hand, this ensures the progress of the human race. Because, once we are in the paradise, the time is to cease: there is just the eternity.
Re: Marxism Leninism as hacking God
Quote:
Originally Posted by christo_tamarin
Ordinary thoughts of a communist believer: "Those who believe in God think that the death is the only way to the paradise. Well, we can help them die and go to their paradise if they obstruct our efforts to build a paradise on the earth."
Nonsense.
You like to demonise things, don't you?
Re: Marxism Leninism as hacking God
Quote:
Originally Posted by christo_tamarin
Yes, the addition of Lenin's statement that "Imperialism is the final Stage of Capitalism" is the only difference between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism. This means that there is no difference, actually.
No, I don't think this is correct.
1st, Marx (and esp. Engels) did not envision a vanguard, especially not along the lines of Lenin's vanguard. Before 1917 was even complete, anarchists stated rather unequivocally: Lenin and his party will create a terrible dictatorship. It happened, not because of any inherent evil, etc., but because of the natural progression of ANY authoritarian revolutionary movement, which Bolshevism was.
2nd, Marx did not envision a forced bourgeois coup (not a Communist revolution, as some state) in what was essentially a feudal country, done for the sake of 'communism.' A bourgeois coup is progressive, but leads to capitalism. That's clear in Marx.
3rd, Lenin essentially created a superstate which was never meant to wither away. Although Marx notes a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' in his work, it's not described explicitly, and certainly not in the bureaucratic manner Lenin hoped for. I also do not see much on the repression of democracy, or the methodical emasculation of workers' groups -- indeed, when workers demanded independent control and management over the workplace (Marx's ideas, of course), Lenin called them 'anarchists' - or, opposers of Bolshevism.
Saying that Leninism is Marxism, is like calling Pol Pot-ism Maoism -- can't really happen.