Thread: Korean Airlines Flight 007 survivors and other alleged conspiracies

Если известно, что башни взорваны и во время эксплуатации их невозможно было заминировать, из этого логически следует, что их заминировали, когда строили. Не так ли?

But what makes you think that it was a controlled demolition in the first place?
And I have never heard of such practice - to plant explosives during construction.
(except maybe in some kind of top secret military facilities which can self destruct in case of enemy attack)

Originally Posted by nulle

But what makes you think that it was a controlled demolition in the first place?
And I have never heard of such practice - to plant explosives during construction.
(except maybe in some kind of top secret military facilities which can self destruct in case of enemy attack)

Common sense?

So fire and fragments melted steel so that it crumbled on top of itself and the entire buildings all fall into the next floors like buildings which are fallen via demolition?!?

Ok.

Also, people laugh at conspiracy but they don't care about liars?!? The USA SAID THEY FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq. Iraq had collaborated with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda allowing the terrorists to carry out the plan? All of this has been proven false. They are blatant lies. It shows you can't trust them. No on talks about this. They concentrate on other things and have no evidence to support the official story. Also, you look at Building Number 7.

People are so indoctrinated and conditioned to believe the official story but if you don't, you are obstracized and ridiculed as a crazy person and not part of the society. It is a great society where free thinkers are celebrated, surely.

Originally Posted by Pavelov

So fire and fragments melted steel so that it crumbled on top of itself and the entire buildings all fall into the next floors like buildings which are fallen via demolition?!?

Not so much "melted" as "softened", but otherwise -- yes, DUH.



(Going back to my comment above about the history of the American slang "duuuuh", pay close attention to 0:18 and 1:27 in this мультик from 1961. The "Abominable Snowman" is a parody of the "Lennie" character from the 1939 film Of Mice and Men.)

Originally Posted by Pavelov

People are so indoctrinated and conditioned to believe the official story but if you don't, you are ostracized and ridiculed as a crazy person and not part of the society.

Well, Pavelov, at least you can find some small comfort in knowing that you're in the company of Galileo and Voltaire...

I guess the obvious question to ask self-described "9/11 Skeptics" who believe there were explosives in the WTC buildings would be:

Assuming for the sake of argument that there were no explosives, and only the fire from the jet fuel, how do you think the towers ought to have collapsed? Did you expect them to fall over like a tree cut by a lumberjack? Or do you believe that they should have only half-collapsed, to the level of the "crash zone" floors, while the lower structure remained intact?

Not so much "melted" as "softened"

У металлов кристаллическая структура, и они не размягчаются перед плавлением. Лёд же тоже не размягчается.

Originally Posted by Marcus

У металлов кристаллическая структура, и они не размягчаются перед плавлением. Лёд же тоже не размягчается.

Осторожно, двери закрываются. Следующая станция -- «Кузнецкий мост»!

ЗЫ: From this useful website:

Metals lose about 50% of their strength at 60% of their melting temperature. This is common knowledge and may be found in any undergraduate text regarding "Fracture and Deformation of Materials."

If the approximate melting temperature of steel is 2750 F [1510 C] then the material would be plastic at 1650 F [900 C].

And also:

the Popular Mechanics article (and NIST report) mentions that pockets of the World Trade Center reached 1800 degrees F [980 C]. This would put the steel temperature in those locations at around 1600-1700 degrees F [870-930 C] , which is far above the 1100 degree F [590 C] mark that steel loses 50% 40% of its structural integrity.

The second quotation contains a slight error, which I've corrected in red. You can easily Google for yourself to confirm that 1100 F [590 C] is widely considered by firefighters to be a critical "failure" temperature for structural steel in buildings, although the loss in strength at this point is only about 40%, and the 50% loss in strength occurs closer to 1650 F [900C]. But in either case, the maximum temperatures in the WTC fires were even hotter, although still much less than the melting point of steel.

По-видимому, кампания дезинформации ЦРУ настолько распространенная, что участвуют в ней и металлурги и пожарные инженеры!!!

Originally Posted by Marcus

У металлов кристаллическая структура, и они не размягчаются перед плавлением. Лёд же тоже не размягчается.

I have a torch and forge that disagree. "Crystallization" or Heat Treating Steel (Quenching, Tempering, Annealing) takes some effort. Mild steel and medium carbon steel do not have enough carbon to change their crystalline structure and cannot be hardened and tempered. Structural steel is considered "mild Steel".

Sorry. Sometimes the blacksmith in me comes out.

Next story: Hollywood "put a man on the moon".

One of my Russian "kids" was adamant that it was American propaganda.
Another one said "It happened, my Grandfather watched it happen". Apparently he was connected with the Soviet space program and was privy to the reports of telemetry, radio, etc.