Thread: Gorbachev....the beast?

While doing some research on Gorbachev, I saw this article and found it very interesting.

http://www.access-one.com/prophecy/covenant.htm

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It seems the Bible is just like Nostradamus... it easy to find there any "prophesy" you like.

Just one quote:

Gorbachev was the EIGHTH leader of the Soviet Union, succeeding Chernenko, Andropov, Brezhnev, Kosygin, Khrushchev, Stalin and Lenin.

If "leader of Soviet Union" means general secretary of CPSU, then Gorbachev was SEVENTH. What does Kosygin do in this list?

With such manipulations, it easy to "prove" anything!

That thing is hilarious. Did you actually bother to read the chapter before posting that? The "prince" in that prophecy is the Messiah. So to believe this prophecy came true you must believe that Mikhail Gorbachev is Yahweh.

Close examination reveals that this gesture met all of the criteria of Daniel's prophecy which stated that a "prince" would come "after 69 weeks" and make a "strong and firm covenant with the many for a 7." The period of time of this covenant on the Hebrew/Jewish calendar is exactly 7 months - from Nisan 17 to Heshvan 17.

The "for a 7" part means for a week, not for "some quantity of time equalling divisible by 7." This site is not only idiotic, it's intellectually dishonest.

BTW my birthday is 9 months to the date after John Lennon was shot. I must be a reincarnation! Alert the authorities of this website immediately!

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ok ok! I just wanted to see what everyone would say.

Pravit, have you ever read Umberto Eco? Esp. "Foucault's Pendulum"? Maybe too eraly, but I think you will like it

Well, watching Noodled Ragu and Beef Stroganoff go at it on TV was quite amusing, even as a child.
What old Beef Stroganoff is up to today, I really don't care.
I herd that he converted to Russian Orthodox though.
Religious people ( particularly Christians, Jews, Hindu and Buddhist ) tend to be better behaved then non-religious so I guess that's a plus.

Lastly, Rev. 17:11 says the coming "beast" will be an EIGHTH ruler. Gorbachev was the EIGHTH leader of the Soviet Union, succeeding Chernenko, Andropov, Brezhnev, Kosygin, Khrushchev, Stalin and Lenin. WATCH GORBACHEV! His return to power is certain...and imminent.

The beast is rather Yeltsin then. Because Kosygin never was the head of state, he was head of government during Brezhnev's time. So Gorbachev was 7th after Lenin, Stalin, Khruschev, Brezhnev, Andropov and Chernenko. Yeltsin was 8th.

By the way, it's not the first time I hear different "biblical tales" about Soviet Union. I heard it's the land of Gog and Magog and so on... And I've seen a lot of americans believing in such tales. Take incompetence, add propaganda and multiply it on religious extremism. You'll get average american. (No offence. I saw wrong people and I'm just wrong )

Originally Posted by Pravit

I was born on July 26 1987. Mick Jagger was born on July 26 1943.

First of all, may I point out to you:
7 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 9 + 8 + 7 = 40.

The Rolling Stones greatest hits CD was called "40 Licks."

4 + 0 = 4, and the Rolling Stones DVD is called "Four Flicks" and is a set of four discs.

There are 44(Forty-four) years between our birthdays.

44 years between our birthdays makes 4 pairs of eleven.

The Rolling Stones song "Going Home" is track number eleven and is eleven minutes long on the US release of "Aftermath", which was their fourth release in 1966. 1+ 9 + 6 + 6 = 22. 2 + 2 = 4.

The Rolling Stones started out originally with four members.

The name "Michael Jagger" has 13 letters. 1 + 3 = 4.

The name "Pravit Chintawongvanich" has 22 letters. 2 + 2 = 4.

The name "Rolling Stones" has 13 letters. 1 + 3 = 4.

The name "Master Russian" has 13 letters. 1 + 3 = 4.

Mick Jagger is the father of seven children by four different women.

There are four people in my immediate family, and I have seven aunts and uncles.

This is undeniable evidence of my link to Mick Jagger.
Yes, I am bored to tears And I'm sure I could have made other "fascinating connections." But I'm tired right now.

You truly are the King of kings...

Either that, or you're Mick Jagger

there is another site where the author thinks Putin to be antichrist and that he s going to begin 3d World war - take a look:
http://www.revelation13.net/Russians.html
http://www.revelation13.net/Putin.html

Originally Posted by Артемида

there is another site where the author thinks Putin to be antichrist

The author is a complete nut! That's where I laugh most of all:

Note that one of his political opponents, former Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov, was born on October 31, 1929, the day the U.S. stock market crashed and one of the darkest days of the century; this may indicate Primakov will eventually also have some role in the Russian government under Putin.

World, of course, revolves around US and their crisises.

Primakov's coalition in the Russian parliament was Fatherland-All Russia, or OVR, could that mean "over"? As in "it is over"?

Cool transition between russian ОВР and English "over". I wonder how will author interpret FAR (english variant of ОВР)?

Note that, concerning Russian President Vladimir Putin:

--The Englsh name "Putt" means "dweller near a pit or pond".

Of course, and God thinks english too. And surname Putin doesn't have Russian roots.

What I am talking about here is the Antichrist, coming to power in Russia, and that Russia is the red 10-horned beast of the Bible's Book of Revelation (the 10 horns being the Confederation of Independent States, led by Russia, although there are more than 10 in it now).

Primakov's coalition in the Russian parliament was Fatherland-All Russia, or OVR, could that mean "over"? As in "it is over"?

Putin's grandfather was a cook to Lenin and Stalin, and therefore he worked in "Hell's Kitchen".

In Hindu mythology, the female demon Putana was a daughter of Bali, the Monkey King.

No comments.

Primakov's coalition in the Russian parliament was Fatherland-All Russia, or OVR, could that mean "over"? As in "it is over"?

Hahahahaha!

(the 10 horns being the Confederation of Independent States, led by Russia, although there are more than 10 in it now)

Hahahahaha!

I thought this topic ended ages ago...

Originally Posted by Pravit

I was born on July 26 1987. Mick Jagger was born on July 26 1943.

First of all, may I point out to you:
7 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 9 + 8 + 7 = 40.

The Rolling Stones greatest hits CD was called "40 Licks."

4 + 0 = 4, and the Rolling Stones DVD is called "Four Flicks" and is a set of four discs.

There are 44(Forty-four) years between our birthdays.

44 years between our birthdays makes 4 pairs of eleven.

The Rolling Stones song "Going Home" is track number eleven and is eleven minutes long on the US release of "Aftermath", which was their fourth release in 1966. 1+ 9 + 6 + 6 = 22. 2 + 2 = 4.

The Rolling Stones started out originally with four members.

The name "Michael Jagger" has 13 letters. 1 + 3 = 4.

The name "Pravit Chintawongvanich" has 22 letters. 2 + 2 = 4.

The name "Rolling Stones" has 13 letters. 1 + 3 = 4.

The name "Master Russian" has 13 letters. 1 + 3 = 4.

Mick Jagger is the father of seven children by four different women.

There are four people in my immediate family, and I have seven aunts and uncles.

This is undeniable evidence of my link to Mick Jagger.
Yes, I am bored to tears And I'm sure I could have made other "fascinating connections." But I'm tired right now.

I'm buying a gas mask and heading for the hills.

Originally Posted by Zeus

Pravit, have you ever read Umberto Eco? Esp. "Foucault's Pendulum"? Maybe too eraly, but I think you will like it

I have read the book and I think about that book everytime I see someone coming with that crazy numerology.

I can prove you anything with my numerology.


"Foucault's Pendulum" is one of the best book I have ever read. Top 5. It is a huge book though. But the final conclusion is superb.

Geesh........Gorby is not the beast. The beast was Emperor Nero(his name's numerical value equals 666). It may interest people in knowing that the second coming of Christ is not going to happen, it's already happened!

Originally Posted by Bandera

Geesh........Gorby is not the beast. The beast was Emperor Nero(his name's numerical value equals 666). It may interest people in knowing that the second coming of Christ is not going to happen, it's already happened!

I know I'm fascinated.

Originally Posted by Линдзи

Originally Posted by Bandera

Geesh........Gorby is not the beast. The beast was Emperor Nero(his name's numerical value equals 666). It may interest people in knowing that the second coming of Christ is not going to happen, it's already happened!

I know I'm fascinated.

Well gather around and let me tell you

See....Christ said he would return soon and he did(spiritually speaking). The final judgement and such came in 70AD with the destruction of the Temple in Jersuleum. Nero is identified as the beast, and Revealations predicts his persecutions of the Christians, which did occur.

So basically Christ has already triumphed and we have been living in the kingdom of God for the past 2000 years(which is spiritual, Christ said his kingdom was not of this world). This doesnt mean sin and trouble doesnt exist, but its reign over mankind has been defeated.

This is not some crackpot theory, theres a whole school of thought called Preterism that upholds this view and it was common place among Christians untill the 19th century.

http://www.preterist.org/whatispreterism.asp

Is the End of the World near? Are we living in the Last Days? Is Christ's return at hand? For 150 years here in America we have constantly been told we were living on the threshold of the end of the world and Christ's return. Prediction after prediction has failed to materialize, and false hope after false hope has been foisted upon the Christian community. Many Christians have been disillusioned, and are already looking for more reasonable explanations. Some have been so disillusioned they left the faith altogether. And the secular media (who are always looking for an excuse) are further discrediting Christianity because of it. Something is terribly wrong with traditional views of Bible Prophecy. There is a serious need to re-examine the whole issue of Last Things.

Bible prophecy can be understood, but Futurist views have fallen far short for many reasons: their extreme physical/literalizing approach, their seeming inability to distinguish between figurative and literal language, and their failure to properly take into account the historical-grammatical-cultural context of the prophecies (specifically what they meant to their original audience). Even the most difficult prophetic passage comes alive when approached properly. It is time to look at some alternatives, and the Preterist view is a great place to start.

"Preterist" means past in fulfillment, and "Futurist" means future in fulfillment. Preterist basically means the opposite of Futurist. Futurists believe most end-time prophecies (especially the major ones) are yet to be fulfilled. Preterists believe that most or all of Bible Prophecy has already been fulfilled in Christ and the on-going expansion of His Kingdom. Most Futurists do not really believe Christ has been successful yet in fully establishing His kingdom.

The "Preterist" interpretation of Bible prophecy has been mentioned several times in publications such as Christianity Today, Christian News, Great Christian Books catalog, World Magazine, and several others. There is already at least one daily radio program teaching from the preterist perspective and several monthly and quarterly publications. Scores of preterist books, tracts, video and audio tapes have been produced and many more are on the way. It is beginning to capture significant public attention, and is "spreading like wildfire" at the grass roots level. It is compatible with the essential beliefs of all Christians, and is already represented in nearly all Protestant denominations and the Roman Church.

When will Christ return? This question is relevant, and can be answered by scripture. Jesus seems to have answered it very clearly in these passages (Matt. 10:23; Matt. 16:27,28; Matt. 24:34). Ever wonder why the First Century Christians expected Jesus to come in their lifetime, and where they got this expectation from? Take a look at the extreme sense of imminency in these passages: James 5:8,9; 1 Pet. 4:7; Matt. 10:23; Matt. 16:27,28; Matt. 24:34. These verses have always troubled Bible students, and have been used by liberal theologians to attack the inspiration of Scripture. They reason that these passages were not fulfilled when they were supposed to be (the first century generation), so Jesus and the NT writers failed in their predictions and were therefore not inspired. But these verses point to Christ's coming in some sense in connection with the Fall of Jerusalem at 70 AD. So, Jesus' predictions were fulfilled. He did not fail, nor do we need to engage in theological gymnastics to try to explain-away the seeming delay or postponement of His return. It happened right on schedule. Many knew the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was important in God's scheme of redemption, but never understood its full significance. It has to do with the consummation of the plan of redemption. The final events of the redemptive drama came to pass in the first century within the apostles' generation (before A.D. 70). Christ's kingdom is here now. Paradise has been restored in Christ (spiritually-speaking). We live in the Garden of Eden now (if we are in Christ), just as sure as we can know we have "eternal life." These are present and abiding benefits, not pie-in-the-sky bye-and-bye. Christ has conquered all His enemies and has given us the Kingdom.

This view offers a much more positive and realistic worldview. It is conservative, consistent, optimistic, responsible and accountable. And it robs us of no motivation for either living the Christian life, or evangelizing the world. In fact, it's the only view which gives us a consistent reason for being constructively involved in making the world a better place for the long-term, unlike the short-term escapist and withdrawal mindset of most futurists.

Bible prophecy absolutely makes sense when approached from this past-fulfillment (preterist) perspective! It puts emphasis on the spiritual nature of God's Kingdom, not on the physical, materialistic, sensual, and sensational. It teaches a realized spiritual salvation in Christ and the Church now, instead of a frustrated hope for a postponed sensually-gratifying paradise way off in the future. It has an optimistic worldview that gets involved, makes a positive difference, and lights a candle, rather than cursing the darkness, longing for a rapture-escape, or retreating from society. It doesn't engage in wild-eyed speculation like futurist views. It's just simple, straight-forward Bible interpretation.

Some of the great theologians and scholars of the last 300 years have suggested the preterist view for consideration, but traditional Christianity was too caught up with the idea that the Pope was the Antichrist or some other such Futurist notion. But that has changed. We are not as gullible now as they were when William Miller, Darby, C. T. Russell, Rutherford, Scofield, Walvoord, and Hal Lindsey came along. A constant barrage of false predictions has made us more wary.

Most Christian theologians in Europe a century ago took a somewhat preterist approach, and none of them considered it unorthodox. One of the leading proponents of the preterist view a century ago was James Stuart Russell (not to be confused with the Jehovah's Witness founder with the same last name, Charles Taze Russell - there is no relation). J. S. Russell (1816-1895) published a book in 1878 entitled, The Parousia. We here at IPA recently reprinted it. Some leading theologians and Christian spokesmen have had the following to say about the book and the preterist view:

F. W. Farrar said Russell's book was "full of suggestiveness."
Charles H. Spurgeon, who did not accept the preterist view, nevertheless stated that Russell's book "throws so much new light upon obscure portions of the Scriptures, and is accompanied with so much critical research and close reasoning, that it can be injurious to none and may be profitable to all."

Walt Hibbard (Chairman, Great Christian Books) "In view of Dr. Russell's marvelous and insightful observations, no serious student of Biblical eschatology should attempt to construct a systematic scheme of apocalyptic events without first consulting this 19th century work, The Parousia."

Gary DeMar (President of American Vision) "How many times have you struggled with the interpretation of certain Biblical texts related to the time of Jesus' return because they did not fit with a preconceived system of eschatology? Russell's Parousia takes the Bible seriously when it tells us of the nearness of Christ's return. Those who claim to interpret the Bible literally, trip over the obvious meaning of these time texts by making Scripture mean the opposite of what it unequivocally declares. Reading Russell is a breath of fresh air in a room filled with smoke and mirror hermeneutics."

Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr. (Sr. Pastor of Reedy River Presbyterian Church) "Although I do not agree with all the conclusions of J. Stuart Russell's The Parousia, I highly recommend this well-organized, carefully argued, and compellingly written defense of preterism to serious and mature students of the Bible. It is one of the most persuasive and challenging books I have read on the subject of eschatology and has had a great impact on my own thinking. Russell's biblico-theological study of New Testament eschatology sets a standard of excellence."

Dr. R. C. Sproul (Ligonier Ministries) "I believe that Russell's work is one of the most important treatments on Biblical eschatology that is available to the church today. The issues raised in this volume with respect to the time-frame references of the New Testament to the Parousia are vitally important not only for eschatology but for the future debate over the credibility of Sacred Scripture."

Many who never knew anyone else took the preterist view have independently discovered it in the Scriptures, and are finding Biblical prophecy bursting with meaning now. If you haven't taken a look at it, it is time you did. Write or call us here at IPA to obtain some of the books and resources mentioned elsewhere on this web site. These will help you finally make sense out of Bible Prophecy without being taken for a ride by the date-setters