The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

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April 18th, 2006, 09:17 AM
mishau_

The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

The Group of Eight, as a club of advanced democratic states, will cease to exist.
....

Perhaps it will be reborn later as the G7, or G4 or G3 or some other entity -- for Russia this question is academic. There won't be a place for it in the new club.

By coming to St. Petersburg, leaders of the G7 will demonstrate their indifference to the fate of freedom and democracy in Russia. They will provide the best possible confirmation of what the Russian authorities never tire of repeating: that there are no fundamental differences between Western leaders and Russian leaders.

Like us, Western leaders are interested only in appearing to care about the rights of individuals and market forces; like us, they only talk about freedom and democracy.

The G8 summit will serve as an inspiring example for today's dictators and tomorrow's tyrants.

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2006/ ... 6.html#top
April 18th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Alexander

Re: The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

A number of points made by Mr. Illarionov may seem persuasive to those who have never visited Russia. For anybody who has spent even a few days here, however, they seem strangely at odds with reality.

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/2006-80-13.cfm
April 18th, 2006, 12:00 PM
mishau_

Quote:

they seem strangely at odds with reality

For one who's never run his own business or has poor ecomomical backgrounds.
April 18th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Bisquit

They offended poor little Andrew-boy and he started to act as Prince Kurbsky of today.
April 18th, 2006, 12:47 PM
Pejko

Why?

:?: Why there must, or have to be the Group of Eight as the club of the largest, industrially developed, democratic countries of the world.

:?: Why must, or have to be there some nations more democratic and some less democratic?

:?: Why we need something like G8?

:?: Why don't we set up the Group of the whole nations of this little and poooooooor Earth?
April 18th, 2006, 01:11 PM
Ramil

Re: Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

:?: Why we need something like G8?

I don't. I'm an anarchist. I detest any government and any rule. The power one man has over the other is a crime itself :)
I mean it. ANY POWER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

:?: Why don't we set up the Group of the whole nations of this little and poooooooor Earth?

There already IS such a group. In case you don't know it's called UNO - United Nations Organization, a large bureaucratic and inefficient body with almost no power left.
April 18th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Pejko

Re: Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

UNO - United Nations Organization, a large bureaucratic and inefficient body with almost no power left.

:!: I don't think any materialistic organization which can only cost us some money every year...

:!: I have mentioned The great spirits' organization of the whole nations in the world
April 18th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Pejko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

Let's unite!

WHY?

We have two ways to live...
:arrow: to live alone
:arrow: and to live together, everbody with everybody in one big bed :D don't be looking back for our history, our old conflicts, our bad habits, and finally don't be looking for our nationality... And then the peace will come to everybody :o
April 18th, 2006, 01:44 PM
Ramil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

Let's unite!

WHY?

We have two ways to live...
:arrow: to live alone
:arrow: and to live together, everbody with everybody in one big bed :D don't be looking back for our history, our old conflicts, our bad habits, and finally don't be looking for our nationality... And then the peace will come to everybody :o

I'd prefer the first option.
I'm not in the mood of sharing my bed with anybody else, you know?
I'm fond of my bad habits and my nationality.
and the last:
Peace will never come to all. Somewhere someone has to be dissatisfied.

The institution of the state has become obsolete. States (I mean all countries, not just US) actually hamper the development of the mankind. That's my deep conviction.
April 18th, 2006, 01:47 PM
Pejko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

Let's unite!

WHY?

or we can simply sit on the bed, sit but alone and we can only SAY HELLO to them who has united together like this stupid cat>
http://www.baci.szm.sk/ahoj.gif[/list]
April 18th, 2006, 01:49 PM
Pejko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pejko

Let's unite!

WHY?

We have two ways to live...
:arrow: to live alone
:arrow: and to live together, everbody with everybody in one big bed :D don't be looking back for our history, our old conflicts, our bad habits, and finally don't be looking for our nationality... And then the peace will come to everybody :o

I'd prefer the first option.

One the one hand I have to agree with you> only after we are able to live alone we are ready to live together...i think....but sometimes i don't think very healthy.... :P
April 20th, 2006, 07:21 AM
Scorpio

Re: The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

The Group of Eight, as a club of advanced democratic states, will cease to exist.
....

Perhaps it will be reborn later as the G7, or G4 or G3 or some other entity -- for Russia this question is academic. There won't be a place for it in the new club.

Agreed, agreed. Personally, I can't see the point for Russian Federation to be with G7.
What is G7? The elite club of global oligarchy. What Russia have to do with it? "Golden billion" has own problems, we have own. Let's leave them with themselves.
April 20th, 2006, 11:42 PM
kalinka_vinnie

Re: The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

The Group of Eight, as a club of advanced democratic states, will cease to exist.
....

Perhaps it will be reborn later as the G7, or G4 or G3 or some other entity -- for Russia this question is academic. There won't be a place for it in the new club.

Agreed, agreed. Personally, I can't see the point for Russian Federation to be with G7.
What is G7? The elite club of global oligarchy. What does Russia have to do with it? "Golden billion" has its own problems, we have our own. Let's leave them with themselves.
April 21st, 2006, 04:12 AM
Alexander

Re: The Death of the Democratic Club (By Andrei Illarionov)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Agreed, agreed. Personally, I can't see the point for Russian Federation to be with G7.
What is G7? The elite club of global oligarchy. What Russia have to do with it? "Golden billion" has own problems, we have own. Let's leave them with themselves.

I'll agree with you if they stop 'solving' our problems...
Anyway Andrey Ilarionov seems strange. I wonder what happened to him.. Agree with me, his article isn't too honest.
April 21st, 2006, 07:59 AM
mishau_

Quote:

What is G7? The elite club of global oligarchy. What Russia have to do with it? "Golden billion" has own problems, we have own. Let's leave them with themselves.

Looks like those countries are too bad to deal with. Why then do ordinary people in those oligarchical contries live much better than we live here? How long after all are we going to deny leaders for the sake of living in poverty? What have we done to become leaders? Nothing! We don't want to be leaders, we just want to live and look at heaps of dogs' excrements around us coz we've not got much money for aprropriate places for dogs to walk. And at the same time we wanna be left alone with our own problems. We have been always a going-behind country. Always! And now we must agree that we have not got a wish to be anything else. 70% of Russians at least.
April 25th, 2006, 12:22 PM
Scorpio

Thanks for corrections, kalinka...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

Quote:

What is G7? The elite club of global oligarchy. What Russia have to do with it? "Golden billion" has own problems, we have own. Let's leave them with themselves.

Looks like those countries are too bad to deal with.

"Bad" in material or in moral sence of this word? Thess are very different (actually opposite) things...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

Why then do ordinary people in those oligarchical contries live much better than we live here?

Self-answering question. Obviously, because these countries are part of global oligarchy. so, political and financial elites live much better, but so-called "ordinary people" get their share too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

How long after all are we going to deny leaders for the sake of living in poverty? What have we done to become leaders? Nothing!

Really? Personally, I have born in the country called USSR, which wanted to be a global leader (and did much to become a only one).
Whatever is this good or bad, is up to you to decide -- but, please, be consistent in your judgements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

We don't want to be leaders, we just want to live and look at heaps of dogs' excrements around us coz we've not got much money for aprropriate places for dogs to walk.

Speak for yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

And at the same time we wanna be left alone with our own problems. We have been always a going-behind country. Always!

Your ignorance is really impressing me. When USSR launched a first satellite; launched a man into space; created a first hydrogen bomb and discovered new trans-uranium elements, etc., etc. ... was it "going-behind"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishau_

And now we must agree that we have not got a wish to be anything else. 70% of Russians at least.

So, why these 70% of Russian are working everyday and becoming richer instead of making complains about their life all over the Net? :)