Thread: Bерите в демократию? / Do you believe in Democracy?

Originally Posted by Hanna

I don't think democracy as invented by the Greek was ever intended to be applied to an entire country. The ancient Greeks applied it to cities only, and not everyone was entitled to vote - only those that were considered to be able to cast an informed vote[/B].

Yes, democracy could work if only not everyone is allowed to vote. That's very simple. This has nothing to do with equality, it has to do with ability. One should have to pass certain tests (like the one you pass before aquiring a driver's permit) in order to prove that he's able to make important and responsible decisions and only after that this person should be allowed to vote. The same thing (with even more strict tests) should be applied to candidates. Any official, any minister and certainly the president should prove they're able for the job. Being a president is a job. You must interview a candidate and be sure he's able and don't trust a decision made by a stupid crowd. Such decisions should be made not by blind and stupid chance that elections provide, but in the process when certain able people should choose between certain able candidates. That's how it should work.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Being a president is a job. You must interview a candidate and be sure he's able and don't trust a decision made by a stupid crowd. Such decisions should be made not by blind and stupid chance that elections provide, but in the process when certain able people should choose between certain able candidates. That's how it should work.

can you tell who this YOU is? it must be someone with the authority higher than the President's if it's him/her/them who entrusts him this job. It could be the 'stupid crowd' like in most modern democracies, but you dismiss it. Who is this then? Aristocrats? Who are in turn appointed by whom?

Originally Posted by Ramil

Yes, democracy could work if only not everyone is allowed to vote. That's very simple. This has nothing to do with equality, it has to do with ability. One should have to pass certain tests (like the one you pass before aquiring a driver's permit) in order to prove that he's able to make important and responsible decisions and only after that this person should be allowed to vote. The same thing (with even more strict tests) should be applied to candidates. Any official, any minister and certainly the president should prove they're able for the job. Being a president is a job. You must interview a candidate and be sure he's able and don't trust a decision made by a stupid crowd. Such decisions should be made not by blind and stupid chance that elections provide, but in the process when certain able people should choose between certain able candidates. That's how it should work.

Very interesting point. You do realize such interviewing implies there will have to be a "president's boss"? So, my questions for now are, who will be holding such a post, how will they be hired, and what will they be doing after the president gets elected?

Originally Posted by LXNDR

can you tell who this YOU is? it must be someone with the authority higher than the President's if it's him/her/them who entrusts him this job. It could be the 'stupid crowd' like in most modern democracies, but you dismiss it. Who is this then? Aristocrats? Who are in turn appointed by whom?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Very interesting point. You do realize such interviewing implies there will have to be a "president's boss"? So, my questions for now are, who will be holding such a post, how will they be hired, and what will they be doing after the president gets elected?

You both didn't read my message apparently. Those should be public tests (literally) with certificates. Some agency or research group can devise up these tests so that by passing them any able citizens could elect and be elected only if they are qualified. And who is the 'president's boss' when we talk of democracy? It's people, right? In fact I'm not only sugesting a one-time test but annual confirmation too. Having this system established we can be sure that our leaders are sane and prepared for the job and they are elected by sane and responsible people.

Originally Posted by Ramil

You both didn't read my message apparently. Those should be public tests (literally) with certificates. Some agency or research group can devise up these tests so that by passing them any able citizens could elect and be elected only if they are qualified. And who is the 'president's boss' when we talk of democracy? It's people, right? In fact I'm not only sugesting a one-time test but annual confirmation too. Having this system established we can be sure that our leaders are sane and prepared for the job and they are elected by sane and responsible people.

ok, but under true democracy these conditions and tests would have still to be approved by the majority of the voters on a referendum for example, otherwise that would not be a democracy
so i don't see how you can skip the 'stupid crowd' and stay democratic at the same time

and as a sidenote i don't think we should use limits of Greek democracy for justification of the idea of its unattainability in the modern conditions, we simply have to regard modern democracy as development of the ancient Greek democracy

Originally Posted by LXNDR

ok, but under true democracy these conditions and tests would have still to be approved by the majority of the voters on a referendum for example, otherwise that would not be a democracy

Why? Again, it has to do with ability. You don't approve driver's test system on a referendum, right? You don't approve doctors' licensing system on a referendum. It just has to be public that's all.

Originally Posted by LXNDR

and as a sidenote i don't think we should use limits of Greek democracy for justification of the idea of its unattainability in the modern conditions, we simply have to regard modern democracy as development of the ancient Greek democracy

Right, and I just described what changes I would like to see in it. Moreover, we could also skip the presidency at all. All major policies should be determined by direct voting of able citizens (thus, skipping the necessity of parliament at least). We now have the technology for direct democracy (without representatives).