Thread: То

Hello.

How would you understand the following :
« Он лежит на том берегу, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу. »
a) He's laying on the shore where we saw a dead fish once.
b) He's laying on the other shore, where we saw a dead fish once.
c) Doesn't make any sense.

Thanks.

Could be a) or b) depending on the context.

It is possible to be more specific, consider these:

Он лежит на том берегу, на котором мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу.
Он лежит на том берегу, в том месте, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу.

Originally Posted by Zubr

Hello.

How would you understand the following :
«Он лежит на том берегу, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу».

The full stop is always after the quote in Russian.

My answer is a) He's laying on the shore where we saw a dead fish once. ) That was my first thought when I read this sentence.

Could be a) or b) depending on the context.

I was going to write "depending on the intonation." )))

The sentence is strange but I wouldn't say it doesn't make any sense. "Однажды" is a bit better than "раз" hier to my taste.

And I would translate "b) He's laying on the other shore, where we saw a dead fish once" as "Он лежит на том берегу, там, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу". Something like "He's laying on the other shore, and namely on that its part where we saw a dead fish once."

And you can use "на другом берегу."

Originally Posted by Zaya

And I would translate "b) as "Он лежит на том берегу, там, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу"

That can also be a).

Some context is definitely required.

Originally Posted by Zaya

I was going to write "depending on the intonation." )))

That too

That can also be a).

Вообще-то "там" — это уточнение (= "в том месте"), но и правильная интонация нужна, чтобы этот момент не ускользнул (в устной речи).

Some context is definitely required.

Я не думаю, что это что-то важное. Скорее всего, первое, что пришло в голову.

Zubr, I would recommend you to analyse sentences written by native speakers, and preferably when you have some context (I have already said it in some other topic as far as I remember))). Short stories are good for this purpose.

Originally Posted by Pcloadletter

Originally Posted by Zaya

And I would translate "b) as "Он лежит на том берегу, там, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу"

That can also be a).

Возможно, я неправильно поняла предложения на английском. Мне показалось, что where — это уточнение ("а именно в том месте, где..."), но если не так, то тогда а) и b) значат одно и то же.

Bottom line - use coordinates

Originally Posted by Zubr

« Он лежит на том берегу, где мы раз видели мёртвую рыбу. »
a) He's lying on the shore where we saw a dead fish once.
b) He's lying on the other shore, where we saw a dead fish once.
c) Doesn't make any sense.

Just a quick correction for the benefit of the forumites who are learning English, though they are probably already aware that this is a common mistake in English.

Thanks for your answers. I am taking note of the ways you suggest to be more specific.
When you speak of intonation, is it something on the line of putting emphasis on том (a) or on где (b)?

Originally Posted by Zaya

Возможно, я неправильно поняла предложения на английском. Мне показалось, что where — это уточнение ("а именно в том месте, где..."), но если не так, то тогда а) и b) значат одно и то же.

I'm not sure wether that's what I wrote but that's what I meant. "on that very shore where..."

Originally Posted by Zaya

Zubr, I would recommend you to analyse sentences written by native speakers, and preferably when you have some context (I have already said it in some other topic as far as I remember))). Short stories are good for this purpose.

I'm doing this actively, but always get myself lost in endless meditations, pondering grammar and usually failing to understand why indeed one needed an imperfective verb here, or why that preposition was preferred over this one.

Originally Posted by Zubr

Originally Posted by Zaya

Zubr, I would recommend you to analyse sentences written by native speakers, and preferably when you have some context (I have already said it in some other topic as far as I remember))). Short stories are good for this purpose.

I'm doing this actively, but always get myself lost in endless meditations, pondering grammar and usually failing to understand why indeed one needed an imperfective verb here, or why that preposition was preferred over this one.

Show us that sentences. )

Originally Posted by Zubr

I'm doing this actively, but always get myself lost in endless meditations, pondering grammar and usually failing to understand why indeed one needed an imperfective verb here, or why that preposition was preferred over this one.

Then go straight to a reference grammar and study the grammar issue completely (for the perhaps 50th time) and it'll eventually make sense (95% of the time.)
I wouldn't tell you what to do, but it makes life so much easier to work with translated texts, otherwise it's like fumbling in the dark for a light switch.