Людям не будут нужным / нужными очки

In an exercise (it deals with a happy future world) about putting verbs in future there are:
1) Людям не...[быть нужным] очки.
2) Детям не ...[быть нужным] школы: они будут заниматься дома на компютере.
And as better solutions
1) Людям не будут нужным очки.
2) Детям не будут нужным школы...
It would not be better in both phrases " нужными", according with subjects of the verbs? I know the proverb "Better necessary than free" and I don't know if the use of нужным is as neuter: "Glasses will not be something necessary for people". Can you make it clear for me? Thanks

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Originally Posted by radomir

1) Людям не будут нужны очки.
2) Детям не будут нужны школы...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by radomir

In an exercise (it deals with a happy future world) about putting verbs in future there are:
1) Людям не...[быть нужным] очки.
2) Детям не ...[быть нужным] школы: они будут заниматься дома на компютере.
And as better solutions
1) Людям не будут нужным очки.
2) Детям не будут нужным школы...
It would not be better in both phrases " нужными", according with subjects of the verbs? I know the proverb "Better necessary than free" and I don't know if the use of нужным is as neuter: "Glasses will not be something necessary for people". Can you make it clear for me? Thanks

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Людям не будут нужны очки.
Людям будут ненужны очки.
Очки станут ненужными.

"Людям не будут нужными очки" sounds bad. "Людям не будут нужным очки" is just wrong.

P.S. "Очки" is always plural.

Thanks for your help.

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

Людям не будут нужны очки.
Людям будут ненужны очки.

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That is absolutely correct grammatically and probably serves as a solution to your exercise. Just to let you know, the only problem is that the usage of "нужен" in this way sounds a bit childish. The much better way to convey the same meaning would be to use another verb:

1) Людям не потребуются очки.
2) Детям не понадобятся школы: они будут заниматься дома на компютере.

I'm not sure if there's a corresponding Mighty Rule for that :), but the verb "be=быть" often does not sound well when used as auxiliary.

Childish? I bet not. "Нужен" is just more vague than other verbs that can substitute it.

Not childish. I agree with Rtyom.

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Originally Posted by Rtyom

Childish? I bet not. "Нужен" is just more vague than other verbs that can substitute it.

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I can see your point, but, hey, which one would sound better:

1. Людям не будут нужны очки.
2. Людям будут ненужны очки.

I myself can hardly imagine using #1 in speech or writing, whilst #2 is relatively ok. Both (however correct) indicate a relatively inferior language usage though. That what I meant by the word "childish."

Also, "нужен" and "требоваться" have essentially the same exact meaning; the latter is being a bit more stressed, that's all. The same could be said about "need" and "require."

In my opinion, the difference is that "требоваться" can be modified to reflect the future tense, and "нужен" can not and as such it would need an auxiliary verb "не будут нужны". That is the problem and not the verb "нужен" itself.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

1. Людям не будут нужны очки.
2. Людям будут ненужны очки.

I myself can hardly imagine using #1 in speech or writing

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I can easily imagine both, in speech and in writing alike.

I wouldn't say require and need are equivalent. They represent similar aspects of possessing. In some ways, need and require are the same. But in others, require has a more authoritative nature to it.

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Originally Posted by ZelyeUrsuli

I wouldn't say require and need are equivalent. They represent similar aspects of possessing. In some ways, need and require are the same. But in others, require has a more authoritative nature to it.

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I completely agree. What I meant is:

нужен = need
требоваться = require

and their usage in Russian is similar to that in English.

However, I know for sure that Russian is quite sensitive to wordy usages. To say the same thing shorter would be much more elegant. That's why we have so many ways to play with the words.

Another example: будет хотеть = захочет

If someone would normally use the verbose equivalent it's ok as long as they feel their language is perfect :) but I would rather raise the awareness of Russian language students to the issue.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

That is the problem and not the verb "нужен" itself.

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"Нужен" is not a verb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

However, I know for sure that Russian is quite sensitive to wordy usages. To say the same thing shorter would be much more elegant. That's why we have so many ways to play with the words.

Another example: будет хотеть = захочет

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Any imperfective verb needs the auxiliary verb "будет" ( or буду, будешь, ...) in the future tense. And often you just can't use a perfective verb instead of imperfective one. It's not Childish, it's Russian.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=ru&q="не+будут+нужны" - 47800.

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Originally Posted by Полуношник

http://www.google.com/search?hl=ru&q="не+будут+нужны" - 47800.

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Ok, so:

1. http://www.google.ru/search?hl=ru&q="не+будут+нужны" - 5 060 000

2. http://www.google.ru/search?hl=ru&q="не+понадобятся" - 7 750 000

3. http://www.google.ru/search?hl=ru&q="не+потребуются" - 10 400 000

Therefore, "не будут нужны" is still Childish. ;)

Again, I'm not trying to say that "не будут нужны" is incorrect!!! I'm just pointing out that it's not the best way.

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Originally Posted by Crocodile

I'm just pointing out that it's not the best way.

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It depends on where you want to come.

I wonder whey we never learned требоваться in school.

You see, what I remember from my school days when learning English was a very useful "The ducks are under the table." Really helped me a lot later on.. :D