за или под

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May 6th, 2008, 04:14 AM
tohca

за или под

Сын дзял отца (за / под) руку.
Which is correct? Book answer is под, but I think за is better.
Would it mean, " The son took the father by the hand"?
May 6th, 2008, 06:10 AM
MasterAdmin

дзял -> взял

Both versions are valid.

за руку - means... he took him by his hand/arm
под руку - this one is more specific here... looks like the son let his father support himself with the son's arm bent in the elbow.
Or it could be the other way around... the son could support himself using his fathers arm.

ЗА РУКУ
http://s.foto.radikal.ru/0705/ec/a94c76afad10.jpg

ПОД РУКУ
http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&go ... 0%F3%EA%F3

http://www.tden.ru/f/articles/022065/illu_1.jpg
May 6th, 2008, 06:29 AM
gRomoZeka

Под руку:
http://images.inmagine.com/168nwm/ph...pdgr088225.jpg

http://images.inmagine.com/168nwm/ph...pdgr089851.jpg

Or even this (to a lesser extent):
http://images.inmagine.com/img/pixtal/p ... 035354.jpg
May 6th, 2008, 06:32 AM
MasterAdmin

using the power of picture search on yandex :lol:

Yes, "под руку" is most often used when talking about a couple (man and a woman).
May 6th, 2008, 07:45 AM
TATY

Re: за или под

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Сын дзял отца (за / под) руку.
Which is correct? Book answer is под, but I think за is better.
Would it mean, " The son took the father by the hand"?

This is part of your problem with why you aren't progressing with Russian. The book, i.e. the expert tells you something, but you always think it's somehow got it wrong and your logic is better despite being the learner.
May 6th, 2008, 09:05 AM
tohca

Re: за или под

Quote:

Originally Posted by TATY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Сын дзял отца (за / под) руку.
Which is correct? Book answer is под, but I think за is better.
Would it mean, " The son took the father by the hand"?

This is part of your problem with why you aren't progressing with Russian. The book, i.e. the expert tells you something, but you always think it's somehow got it wrong and your logic is better despite being the learner.

Sorry if I have offended you somehow. Just trying my best to understand the book. Although it's a good one, it's explanation is fixed. There are certainly many possibilities to interpretation of a text (ambiguities), especially on written textbooks. That's why I find this forum a 'godsend' for learners of Russian. However, even with a good book and a wonderful forum like this, I feel I'm still not making much headway. But I'm not giving up though, far from it.
Долго ли, коротко ли я буду делать уcпехи в русскому языку. Sooner or later, I will make progress in Russian (I hope :wink: )
May 6th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Оля

Re: за или под

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Долго ли, коротко ли я добьюсь успехов (anyway the future tense is needed here) в русском_ языке.

"Долго ли, коротко ли" is an expression from tales. :) Use better "рано или поздно".
May 6th, 2008, 09:27 AM
tohca

Re: за или под

Quote:

Originally Posted by Оля

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Долго ли, коротко ли я добьюсь успехов (anyway the future tense is needed here) в русском_ языке.

"Долго ли, коротко ли" is an expression from tales. :) Use better "рано или поздно".

Большое спасибо! Рано или поздно я добьюсь успехов в русском языке. Emm, think I'll make this my new motto. :D
May 6th, 2008, 09:35 AM
tohca

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterAdmin

using the power of picture search on yandex :lol:

Yes, "под руку" is most often used when talking about a couple (man and a woman).

Yes, with you and gRomoZeka's explanation with pictures, it clear as crystal now. Much thanks.
May 6th, 2008, 12:45 PM
TATY

Re: за или под

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Quote:

Originally Posted by TATY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Сын дзял отца (за / под) руку.
Which is correct? Book answer is под, but I think за is better.
Would it mean, " The son took the father by the hand"?

This is part of your problem with why you aren't progressing with Russian. The book, i.e. the expert tells you something, but you always think it's somehow got it wrong and your logic is better despite being the learner.

Sorry if I have offended you somehow. Just trying my best to understand the book. Although it's a good one, it's explanation is fixed. There are certainly many possibilities to interpretation of a text (ambiguities), especially on written textbooks. That's why I find this forum a 'godsend' for learners of Russian. However, even with a good book and a wonderful forum like this, I feel I'm still not making much headway. But I'm not giving up though, far from it.
Долго ли, коротко ли я буду делать уcпехи в русскому языку. Sooner or later, I will make progress in Russian (I hope :wink: )

I'm not offended nor was I chastising you, I was just saying your approach to Russian may be holding you back. Perhaps it would be better to have phrased the question: "My book says под руку but is за руку also possible, or what's the difference." Because the way you are phrasing your questions tends to be "my book says this, but this doesn't mirror how you say it in English so it seems wrong to me."
May 6th, 2008, 02:00 PM
tohca

Re: за или под

Quote:

Originally Posted by TATY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Quote:

Originally Posted by TATY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohca

Сын дзял отца (за / под) руку.
Which is correct? Book answer is под, but I think за is better.
Would it mean, " The son took the father by the hand"?

This is part of your problem with why you aren't progressing with Russian. The book, i.e. the expert tells you something, but you always think it's somehow got it wrong and your logic is better despite being the learner.

Sorry if I have offended you somehow. Just trying my best to understand the book. Although it's a good one, it's explanation is fixed. There are certainly many possibilities to interpretation of a text (ambiguities), especially on written textbooks. That's why I find this forum a 'godsend' for learners of Russian. However, even with a good book and a wonderful forum like this, I feel I'm still not making much headway. But I'm not giving up though, far from it.
Долго ли, коротко ли я буду делать уcпехи в русскому языку. Sooner or later, I will make progress in Russian (I hope :wink: )

I'm not offended nor was I chastising you, I was just saying your approach to Russian may be holding you back. Perhaps it would be better to has phrased the question: "My book says под руку but is за руку also possible, or what's the difference."

Ok, point noted.