What's the difference between the 2, and when do you one instead of the other?
Спасибо.
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What's the difference between the 2, and when do you one instead of the other?
Спасибо.
I think еда is more concrete, and пища is more common (~abstract) concept.
I can't remember when I used the word пища the last time.
Came across an interesting idiom:Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Щи да каша, пища наша.
Do you like your 'щи и каша' that much?
Don't understand idioms that much literally.Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
By the way, щи is a very good thing. Каша can be various, but it's health-giving. In the mornings.
Пища is more official. You can find it in newspapers, on TV, in some official reports, etc while еда is a word normal people use.
I think I can figure out what щи is, but not too sure about каша. We do have porridge here too, but it is usually made of rice and an assortment of things depending on one's taste.
Каша is basically cereals (any kind of edible grain) boiled in water or milk. It can be made of semolina, buckwheat, rice, corn, oats, millet, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
By the way what's the difference between gruel and porridge?
Thanks for clarifying the usage of пища.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
By the way, what does "стриптиз по-русски" mean? Is it the same as "гллять по-русски"?
Porridge for us Asians is almost always made of rice, boiled till it expands and softens. Sometimes we take it straight, sometimes we spice it up with whatever we can lay our hands on and boil them all together. Then it's more like gruel. However, we call it congee. Gruel has a rather unpalatable connotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Russian Striptease - I slowly take off all the responsibility from myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
It's like what we call 'playing Tai Chi' in this part of the world. Yes, it's derived from the Chinese martial art, but twisted to mean avoiding blame or responsibility to oneself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Guys, this is a PROVERB! A big difference. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
This proverb is just reflecting a fact that bread and cabbage soup for centuries were essential foods for peasantry. No fancy foreign potatoes, tomatoes, rice, etc. at the time, remember? Bread also had a sacred and ritualistic meaning.
Nowadays many dislike 'kashas', but bread still goes almost with every meal.
Thanks. Sorry for the wrong interpretation. So when would one use a proverb like "щи да каша, пища наша"?Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Nothing to be sorry about. ;) Actually there's a difference between "пословица" and "поговорка" (I guess they are both translated as 'proverb'). "Щи да каша, пища наша" is most likely a "поговорка". And like many "pogovorkas" (standard sayings,which, unlike "poslovitsas", don't give any advice or don't have a moral) it's said without any clear purpose, just to fill the gap in coversation. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
This one is rather rare, for example, you can say it jokingly (both approvingly or disapprovingly) when sitting at the table and eating kasha... Really, I can't think of anything else right now. :)
It's also widely used at different culinary sites as a catch phrase, but that's all.
It's a SAYING not a proverb :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
I used a 'proverb', because I'm not sure the native English speaker will see the difference. But I explained it later. In many words, risking to bore everybody. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by net surfer
Загляни в словарь. ))) Там и для пословицы, и для поговорки дается одинаковый перевод: proverb, saying (как синонимы). Из чего я заключаю, что разница сия ими не очень ощущается.
They do :PQuote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Code:Steve: proverbs are sort of wise smart things
Steve: and saying are just common phrases
Sorry I didnt notice that. You're rigth it was too many words lolQuote:
But I explained it later. In many words, risking to bore everybody. :lol:
I did looked it up long time ago and did it right now specially for you :)Quote:
Загляни в словарь. ))) Там и для пословицы, и для поговорки дается одинаковый перевод: proverb, saying (как синонимы). Из чего я заключаю, что разница сия ими не очень ощущается.
proverb - a short well-known statement that gives advice or expresses something that is generally true
saying - a well-known short statement that expresses an idea most people believe is true and wise
The only difference I feel between "proverb" and "saying" is that we don't call things "proverbs" very often. Usually we just say, "There's a saying," or "We have a saying..." (поговорка?)
Proverbs are sayings, but I think people usually save the word for sayings that are more weighty and wise -- like the Bible book. (пословица? though I know it's Притчи in the Bible).
PS - Sayings give advice like proverbs, but, perhaps, not quite as directly, and simpler. For example, "A stitch in time saves nine." It doesn't directly give advice, but you are meant to take a lesson from it. That is, that you should do things as soon as possible because it will save you trouble later.
Что и требовалось доказать! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot
net surfer, никакие цитаты из толковых словарей не изменят факта, что для многих нейтив спикеров "saying" и "proverb" - одно и то же (что и отражено в двуязычных словарях). А толковые словари читают далеко не все. :)
Так что приходится описательно, если хочешь, чтобы человек наверняка тебя понял. Воть. :P
I believe "A stitch in time saves nine" is a proverb, and it does give an advice after all. :) I think that the main difference is that proverbs have a clear moral statement (what you should or should not to do, what's right and what's wrong, etc.). Sayings often don't do that. For example, the saying about "щи" is a mere statement of a fact. It even can change it's moral apprising (whether it's good or bad) depending on the intonation of the speaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot
In Russian long proverbs often 'lose' their ending and in this (short) form they become 'sayings'. In these cases the line between proverbs and sayings much more subtle, almost non-existent.
For example, there's a saying 'Голод - не тетка' (Hunger is not your aunt). The meaning is obvious (to Russian speaker), but it doesn't actualy teaches us something or represents some century-old wisdom.
But the original proverb does: "Голод не тетка, пирожка не поднесет". (Maybe it's not the best example, both proverb and saying are not very 'teaching', but still :))
PS. Oh, I came up with a better pair: :D
"Не плюй в колодец" - a saying
"Не плюй в колодец - пригодится воды напиться" - a proverb
I don't see a difference. To me, they mean the same thing, it's just that the second version completes the thought which was implied in the first.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
As far as English is concerned, a proverb and a saying are practically identical.
Yeah, as I said, in this cases (when saying is a shortened version of the actual proverb) the difference is almost non-existent. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot
Maybe net serfer can suggest something better, I'm out of ideas. :roll: :)
But it's easier to see why "щи да каша..." is a saying, not a proverb, isn't it?
Lol WTF?!?! You made me do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Quote:
Загляни в словарь.
I asked a native as well if you didn't notice!Quote:
что для многих нейтив спикеров "saying" и "proverb" - одно и то же
Bilingual dictionaries often lie especially Lingvo :( Too bad but they cant be 100% trusted. For this reason it's better to use monolingual dictionaries. I didn't think Russians on this forum used only bilingual dictionaries.Quote:
(что и отражено в двуязычных словарях). А толковые словари читают далеко не все. :)
Что ты используешь слова носящие мне один и тот же смысл? Представь, что я говорю тебе, "Теперь видишь разницу между едой и пищей?" :PQuote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Ну ладно, проехали... :lol:
Thank you!Quote:
Bilingual dictionaries often lie especially Lingvo
Я вообще не пойму, чего вы на меня наезжаете. Договоритесь между собой сначала. :)
Думаешь, что мы с ним разные люди, что ли?Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
:P
Let me try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matroskin Kot
Свинья везде грязь найдёт. It's just a notice, it doesnt give some advice or give you some really useful information. It's just kinda a fact people noticed thats all. If you don't know it, nothing will happen.
Не плюй в колодец, пригодится воды напиться. It's some advice which teach you не плевать в колодец because later тебе пригодиться оттуда воды напиться. If you don't know it, you'll screw up.
Hopehully it'll help.
Thanks guys for the good discussion about the subtleties of a saying versus a proverb. Now I learn two new words, "пословица и поговорка", in pretty good detail.
So while there is a distinct difference between "пословица и поговрка", the English "saying and proverb" is used quite interchangeably without any significant difference. It may probably have a stricter definition, but today most people use it without any distinction. However, the word "saying"s is more common than "proverb".
I think that although these two words can be used interchangeably, the reasoning behind the two follows thus: all proverbs are sayings, but all sayings are not proverbs. :)
True, but I just can't think of a saying that's not a proverb. Can you?
If my grandma had balls, she'd be my grandpa? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by tohca
Can't say I've heard that one before. Even then, it does have something catchy and wise about it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Жжешь!!! =)Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Честно, я старалась, но не смогла вспомнить ничего другого. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by BappaBa
Мне эту фразу так часто повторяли, что она теперь автоматом всплывает и блокирует все прочие мозговые волны. )
By the way, пища can be used in a figurative sense, unlike еда.
пища для ума
дать пищу для разговоров
One can't say еда instead of пища here.
These are pretty good phrases indeed, especially "пища для ума". Hope they sink in and form part of my active vocabulary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля