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Можно говорить и "во флоте" и "на флоте", по-русски. Если они говорят и "во флоте" и "на флоте", можно тоже говорить и "в армии" и "на армии"? Или и "в полиции" и "на полиции"? Можно пользоваться и "на" и "в(о)" в связи с армией и со флотом?
Спасибо за помощь
Джек
No, it's always "в армии" and "в полиции".Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBoni
The better (natural) word order:Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBoni
По-русски можно сказать и "во флоте", и "на флоте".
I'm sorry, but "тоже" is not fine here. You can use "также" or "ещё" in that sentence. I know, it's a bit hard. :oops:
They say (impersonal) = говорят (without "they")
"Со флотом" is wrong.
Jack, it's
"во флоте" and not "в флоте" because the latter would be "ффлоте" (the ф сauses the preceeding в to devoice to ф). Remember from the other thread, repeated consonant + additional consonant isn't allowed, thus the fill vowel is added.
But C is not a В or Ф so "с флоте" (сфлоте) does not require the O to be added. Basically фл is quite an easy combination, the two sounds flow together. Compare them with -мн- that are hard to say one after the other.
"На флоте" was a professional slang. Don't bother about these "в/на флоте". It's an exception and even native speakers can disagree about the proper preposition, especially if one of them is a sailor.
They always name things differently in the navy. They call палуба what we call пол, переборка instead of стена, кок instead of повар, and so on.
Sailors are very strange people :)
=)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Мы говорим не "штормы", а "шторма" -
Слова выходят коротки и смачны:
"Ветра" - не "ветры" - сводят нас с ума,
Из палуб выкорчевывая мачты.
(с) Высoцкий
I think that "на флоте" was formed by analogy with "на корабле" (on a ship) where the preposition "на" is logical.
Vaguely along the same lines as the topic post, is there a pattern in Russian concerning when to use "на" and "в"? It seems to be a lot more complicated than the former meaning on, and the latter meaning in or into. Can anyone help with that?
Спасибо вам за помощь
Джек
There is no universal rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBoni
As a rough guide, we should say НА means "ON a surface" (with spacial meaning) and В means "INside a space".
But there are a lot of situations where it would not work. And you just have to know how specific situations are expressed.
For example, "in the street" = "на улице" - just accept it
НА is used when you talk about some events, like на концерте, на матче, на соревновании, на работе, на дежурстве, на дне рождения, на празднике... I think it's a general rule for this specific case.
Sometimes НА and В will change the meaning:
На столе = on a table (desk), i.e. on its top; в столе = inside a drawer of a desk
На реке = at the river (near it, on the bank), or = on the surface of the river
В реке = in the river (in the water), i.e. Рыба живёт в реке. Вода в реке грязная.
We say "on the street" or "on X street" in English, so to an English speaker на улице is what we'd expect. And a street is a flat surface so it's logical too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман
Jack,
Spacially, as Bob has said, в is used for "in" or "in to", i.e. the interior of enclosed spaces, and на is "on" or "on to" for unenclosed, open spaces / surfaces.
на is also used for events:
на концерте - at the concert
на выставке - at the show / exhibition
на празднике - on the Holiday
TV channels, websites:
на телеканале "Россия" - on the Russia channel.
на caйте Би-би-си - on the BBC website
BUT: в интернете - on the Internet
на + time expression in accusative = for:
Я съездил в Париж на свой день рождения - I went to Paris for my birthday.
Buy the way, "Я ездил в Париж на свой день рождения" is fine too and means the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Мне кажется, что после формы глагола съездил (совершенный вид) уже не ожидаешь особых подробностей о поездке. Ну съездил и всё.
После ездил можно ожидать продолжения рассказа о дне рождения: ездил, встречался с друзьями, праздновали в доме у родителей или в ресторане.
Можно ожидать, а можно и не ожидать.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
В принципе после "съездил" тоже можно подробности услышать.
Да, это не будет ошибкой.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
This is possible but with totally different meaning: На полиции лежит задача обеспечения правопорядка.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBoni
That's not really the point, the question is about в and на in the sense ofQuote:
Originally Posted by E-learner
Он в.....
i.e.
The example you have above is because of prepositions usage depending on the verb. E.g. задача лежит на чем-то. It has nothing to do with the noun being used, and is only going to confuse the learner at this stage.
Really? I'm surprised as I was taught it should be "in the street" in English.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Certainly, I do believe what you say. But even my Lingvo dictionary tells me:
на улице in the street; out-of-doors, outdoors ( вне дома)
It's not quite that simple, it depends on the subject. It seems to me that if you are talking about a specific location, it is always "on X street" or "on the street at/ next to/ opposite X". If you're using "the street" as a syonym for "outside" (as opposed to inside a building) and there is no reference to a specific location it is "in the street".
Yes, that's what I exactly meant. In Russian, we say "на улице X" (if you specify a street name) to denote a specific street location.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
But if we say "на улице" without any additional info, it usually means "outdoors". It can even be in the countryside, where there is no real "street", but we still use "на улице" in this sense.
Согласен. Все, кто считают, что корабль "плавает", должны говорить "служить во флоте", а те, кто знают, что корабль "ходит" предпочитают "служить на флоте" как более традиционное. Источник - "служить на галерах". :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман