Thread: are you going in that direction?

Hi,

I have a big problem asking my friends to give me a lift, if it is not out of their way. I am able to ask, it is just painful - and difficult. What I would like to know is the proper way to ask something like:

1) Can you give me a lift home?

2) Can you give me a lift, if it is not out of you way?

3) On your way home, will you be passing anywhere near ______ ?

What is the difference between возить and вести? What exactly is the infinitive of вести, I can't even figure that out.

I tried to keep it as close to the original as I could:

1) Can you give me a lift home?
=> Тебе не сложно подвезти меня до дома?

2) Can you give me a lift, if it is not out of you way?
=> Ты не мог бы меня подвезти, если тебе по пути?

3) On your way home, will you be passing anywhere near ______ ?
=> По дороге домой ты случайно не будешь проезжать мимо ______?

What is the difference between возить and вести? What exactly is the infinitive of вести, I can't even figure that out.

возить => to transport, to carry
вести => to behave

Perhaps your question actually was what's the difference between возить and везти. Both are infinitives and have an identical meaning. The difference in usage is very subtle and is roughly equivalent to:

Разве я вожу детей хуже взрослых лошадей? => (from возить) => Do I carry kids worse than the adult horses?
Разве я везу детей хуже взрослых лошадей? => (from везти) => Am I carrying kids worse than the adult horses?

Does it make sense?

Originally Posted by ycomp

What is the difference between возить and вести? What exactly is the infinitive of вести, I can't even figure that out.

"Возить" - multidirectional: возить домой (every day), возить по городу (without definite destination)
"везти" - unidirectional: везти домой (single action)

Вести has multiple meanings including "to lead", "to drive (a car)".

thanks, the explanations and translations are much appreciated. Still confused about the difference between везти and вести but I'll do more reading to try to figure it out.

anyhow the word I need to use in my questions seems to be подвезти

Originally Posted by ycomp

Still confused about the difference between везти and вести [...]

Yeah.. those two are pronounced almost identically in the normal speech. But the origins are very different:

везти comes from the word "воз" meaning a load to transport:

я везу
он/она везёт
мы везём
они везут

вести comes from the word "вед" meaning "knowledge". The exact meaning is formed based on the object to whom the subject 'transfers the knowledge' what to do:

вести себя => to behave
вести людей => to lead the people
вести машину => to drive a car

я веду машину (I'm driving the car)
он/она ведёт себя прекрасно (he/she behaves very well)
мы ведём людей к светлому будущему (we lead the people to the bright future)
они ведут себя как последние свиньи (they behave like the worst pigs)

Other words you might know associated with "вед" which can help you remember the above:

медведь = мёд + вед (the one who is knowledgeable about the honey) = a bear
ведьма = a (female) person who knows what the ordinary people don't = a witch

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by ycomp

Still confused about the difference between везти and вести [...]

вести comes from the word "вед" meaning "knowledge".

Are you sure?



The difference between "везти" and "вести" is similar to the difference between "ехать" and "идти".

"Везти" means generally speaking "to assist in moving [by] any transport"
Таксист везёт пассажира.
Покупатель везёт тележку с покупками.
Любишь кататься, люби и саночки возить.

"Вести" means "to assist in walking"
Мама ведёт ребёнка за руку.
Полицейский ведёт преступника.

"Вести" can also mean "to guide/rule" (figuratively - to help choose the right direction) - вести машину, вести народ к светлому будущему. I don't think it connected with knowledge transfer.

Originally Posted by Полуношник

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by ycomp

Still confused about the difference between везти and вести [...]

вести comes from the word "вед" meaning "knowledge".

Are you sure?

and the gloves come off... lol

Originally Posted by Полуношник

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by ycomp

Still confused about the difference between везти and вести [...]

вести comes from the word "вед" meaning "knowledge".

Are you sure?

Let' think together and look at the verb forms: веди, веду, ведёт, ведём, ведёте, ведут, ведущий, ведомый. The "вед" is present in all those forms. So, logically, the infinitive should be "ведти". However, this form does not exist. At some point in time, the "ведти" became the "вести". I'm not sure how, as I'm not a linguist. But it seems obvious to me that "вед" is the origin. Please let me know what do you think I'm missing in the logic here.

Originally Posted by Полуношник

"Вести" means "to assist in walking"
Мама ведёт ребёнка за руку.
Полицейский ведёт преступника.

That seems to me having the meaning of "leading", rather than "to assist in walking". Like leading a horse or a pony. Or the people to the bright future. When you lead someone you know where you're going and their 'knowledge where to go' is irrelevant. You infer your will/knowledge where to go on them. I think that's how the word came about in a first place. You usually don't assist a horse to walk.

is there a simpler (one word imperative way) to tell someone to behave than "вести себя хорошо" ?

Originally Posted by ycomp

is there a simpler (one word imperative way) to tell someone to behave than "вести себя хорошо" ?

I heard many times the use of "Успокойся!" in this sense. Although it literary means: "Be calm!"

thanks, that will do very nicely.. I am familiar with this word, just never thought to use it... but I needed such a word the other day.

also, one other question for this thread.... if I may...

How can I ask "can you pick me up?" ? (if my friend has a car)

Originally Posted by ycomp

How can I ask "can you pick me up?" ? (if my friend has a car)

=> Ты мог бы меня забрать [на машине]?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by ycomp

How can I ask "can you pick me up?" ? (if my friend has a car)

=> Ты мог бы меня забрать [на машине]?

thanks, appreciated

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Originally Posted by ycomp

How can I ask "can you pick me up?" ? (if my friend has a car)

=> Ты мог бы меня забрать [на машине]?

These variants also often used:

Можешь меня захватить по дороге?
Подбрось меня, если тебе не трудно.
Не подкинешь до дома?

More exotic, but I still heard them rather frequently:

Меня не зацепишь?
Можно тебе на хвоста сесть?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

вести comes from the word "вед" meaning "knowledge".

Not quite. There are two вед- roots in Russian that have different historical sources. The one that means ‘knowledge’ descended from PIE vēd- and was spelled with yat' before the Revolution, thus pre-revolutionary вѣдать ‘to know’, which is now spelled ведать. We also see this root in modern words like ведомости, ведьма, страноведение.

The other вед- root means ‘lead’ and is descended from PIE ved- and was spelled with е before the Revolution, thus pre-revolutionary вести ‘to lead’, which is still spelled the same way. We also see this root in motion words like привести, отвести, довести.

I see your point. The fact those two are spelled differently might mean they were also pronounced differently, so there might be no connection between the two. Good job!

this conversation brings up an interesting thought... my father has perfect Russian and it's his native language but he was born in Russian speaking region outside of "revolution territory"... one time he spoke to a Ukrainian (native Russian speaking) woman and I said to her, "his Russian is pretty good, right?" and she said "yeah, almost perfect". It was the "almost" that I didn't quite understand... I had assumed it had to do with accent differences although to tell you the truth, her accent sounded like "normal Russian" to me... I mean she didn't pronounce any words strangely that I could tell, although I noticed that some Muscovites do (pronounce some words strangely to my ears).

... but now I'm thinking maybe it is that there are some grammatical differences due to Soviet Reforms of the language? I had thought that any "corruption" of Russian in the Soviet and post-Soviet era mostly came from influence of English words on the language (although that seems to happen with most languages)

Has anyone noticed any differences in Russian between Soviet/post-Soviet Russians and White Russian Emigré communities?

Originally Posted by ycomp

Has anyone noticed any differences in Russian between Soviet/post-Soviet Russians and White Russian Emigré communities?

Soviet Reforms of the language was performed just after the Soviet revolution. Actually this reform was inspired long time before and was about to be adopted by society. But revolution had came and the reform was introduced (officially) by new soviet government. As far as white emigrants rejected everything connected to soviets this reform also was rejected for some time by the emigrants. While the difference introduced by the reform was quite a big. Even alphabet was changed. So sooner or later the emigrants have accepted the reform.

My guess is that the difference you notice may be related to the idea that the language in the closed community (like an emigrants group) is not evolved because in every day life they use another language. While in the original country the language is evolved significantly. We have a nice example here on this forum: our user Zubr learned Russian by classic Russian literature (like Chekhov and others from that time) so all native Russians here noticed that his Russian (being extremely good) is a little bit outdated in some sentences (modern Russian would not speak in such a way).

Originally Posted by ycomp

Russian in the Soviet and post-Soviet era mostly came from influence of English words on the language (although that seems to happen with most languages)

Has anyone noticed any differences in Russian between Soviet/post-Soviet Russians and White Russian Emigré communities?

I doubt that such "old-fashioned" language by itself can be recognized as "incorrect" by a native speaker. Maybe as "specific" or "fancy" but not as "incorrect". Though those who lived long time abroad without regular speaking Russian can gain a kind of foreign accent which can be treated as imperfection.

one thing I did notice that I thought was a bit strange... when I first listened to my first "Learn Russian" tape, you know basic greetings and words and such. I learned this word "привет" I guess I must have heard it before in my life, but really I didn't remember it. If it was used as a greeting at all between any of the Russians I knew (well basically my family or at church or friends they knew from church), it must not have been common at all.