Hi there,
Could you please give me tips on how to use cases and simple ways of remembering their uses? I know their is a wealth of info online and in books but no matter how much I research- I continue to struggle!!
Printable View
Hi there,
Could you please give me tips on how to use cases and simple ways of remembering their uses? I know their is a wealth of info online and in books but no matter how much I research- I continue to struggle!!
It's a very unusuall and original question. :) Ok, take some tips:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
стол - the table - nominative The table is in a room.
стола - of the table - genetive - The price of the table is low. Genetive in Russian is also used with "no" kinda There is no table here (no existence of the table). Also "a table-leg" in russian is "a leg of a table". Some prepositions need genetive too.
столу - to the table - dativ - I'm going to the table. Some prepositions also need dative case.
стол - (look at) the table - acussative I moved the table. Looks similar to nominative, ah? Imagine that a table is "he" - I moved him. He is chaneged into him. So this is acussative. Some prepositions need acussative case too.
столом - with/by the table - instrumental I've knocked him with a table. Instrumental also is used with some prepositions.
о/на/в столе - about/on/in the table - prepositional (used with some prepositions) You are in the table. We are talking about the table. My computer is on a table.
Well, I don't know whether it works with non-native Russian speakers but every noun case is defined by so called ruling question and the prepositions which can precisely define the case.
Nominative - answers the questions Who, What (What is it, who is it) (Кто?, что?)
Genetive - answers the question what is missing (кого?, чего?), and the indicating prepositions are: без, до, для, из, из-за, из-под, мимо, кроме, вместе, сверх, насчет, среди, у... (if you see any of these prepositions - the case is genetive)
Dative - answers the question to what?, to whom? (кому?, чему?), and the prepositions are к, по, благодаря, вопреки, вслед, навстречу, наперекор, согласно, соответственно, also constructions на пути к, по направлению к and others.
Accusative - answers the question whom (кого? что?) (whom do I see, what do I see). The prepositions are про, через, сквозь, в ответ на construction, etc.
Instrumental - well, I In russian, the indicating questions are Кем? Чем? (by/with what?, by/with whom?) and the indicating prepositions and constructions are над, перед (пред), согласно с (кем?, чем?), рядом с (кем?, чем?), вместе с (кем?, чем?), в связи с (кем?, чем?).
Prepositional - (О ком?, о чём?) (about what, about whom) prepositional is called so because it can be used with prepositions only. The single indicative preposition I could think of is о (about).
I think it would be educational to read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_morphology
Maybe using examples from Old English you could understand the case system better.
And of course the following could help you with Russian:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_grammar (a very brief but rather good overview).
В чём? Где? В Караганде.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
О чём? О лесе. Где? В лесу?
Hello,
I am on vacation now so instead of doing the Pimsleur corrections I should be doing I'm combining the examples above into one document. But I need help (lots of it!). Here's what is done for genitive case:
g.c. - genitive case - родительный падеж. Answers the question what is missing (кого?, чего?), and the indicating prepositions are: без, до, для, из, из-за, из-под, мимо, кроме, вместе, сверх, насчет, среди, у... (if you see any of these prepositions - the case is genitive). Genitive is used after numerals.
Masculine gender - мужской род:
стол - четыре стола (g.c. singular) – four tables, пять столов (g.c. plural) – five tables
музей - четыре музея (g.c. singular), пять музеев
портфель - четыре портфеля (g.c. singular), пять портфелей
Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - четыре газеты (g.c. singular) – пять газет
неделя - четыре недели (g.c. singular) – пять недель
Neuter - средний род:
окно - четыре окна (g.c. singular) – пять окон
здание - четыре здания (g.c. singular) – пять зданий
Genitive in Russian is also used with lack of possession:
Здесь нет стола (g.c.). - There is no table here (no existence of the table).
Please help me correct my many mistakes!
Could someone please translate the following:
Also "a table-leg" in Russian is (Please translate into Russian: "a leg of a table").
These are for the dative case:
стол - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the table." My guess is «Я иду столу»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the tables." My guess is «Я иду столам»).
музей - (Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museum." My guess is «Я иду музею»).
(Please translate into Russian: "I'm going to the museums." My guess is «Я иду музеям»).
I do not have the experience/knowledge to do this by myself. I do think with your help that a document can be put together to help me with the cases.
Thank you,
Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
Ножка (чего?) стола.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
стола! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowik
Тьфу-ты! Я даже ловил себя на том, что хочу написать стула, и мысленно поправился, но написал-таки стула! Сообщение поправил.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Please supply Russian sentences with the following:
The word "музей in dative singular case.
The word "музей in dative plural case.
The word "газета" in dative singular case.
The word "газета" in dative plural case.
The word "аудитория" in dative singular case.
The word "аудитория" in dative plural case.
The word "окно" in dative singular case.
The word "окно" in dative plural case.
The word "здание" in dative singular case.
The word "здание" in dative plural case.
Thank you,
Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
to = к here.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
But remember we say к музею when we mean "towards the museum"(dat.) and say в музей (acc) - "into the museum" when we mean to visit a museum.
EDIT: By the way, в музей - into the museum is accusative, but в музее - in the museum is prepositional.
Thank you Оля!
Please check my translations:
музей - Он подарил музею свою коллекцию картин. - He gave his picture collection to the museum.
Музеям тяжело выживать в условиях капиталистического рынка – It's hard for museums to survive in the (conditions) of a capitalist marketplace.
Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - Газете требуется сотрудник. - A newspaper (demands (of, from), needs) a contributor.
Газетам всегда требуются сотрудники. - Newspapers always need contributors.
аудитория - Этой аудитории нужен ремонт. - This lecture hall needs repairs.
Этим аудиториям ремонт не требуется. - The repairs for these lecture halls are not necessary.
Neuter - средний род:
окно - Подойди, пожалуйста, к этому окну. - Please approach this window.
Все прильнули к окнам. - All was stuck to the windows.
здание - Идите к зданию вокзала. - Go towards the building of the station.
К историческим зданиям нужно относиться бережно. - Historic buildings need to treated with care.
Thank you,
Scott
JJ,Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ
Thank you. This is why I need to see examples of all the cases.
Scott
Dative? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by JJ
No, it's not a dative... It's accusative.
Dative is "музею".
Мне кажется, ты всё перевёл правильно, но я не уверена в своем английском.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
музей - Он подарил музею свою коллекцию картин. - He presented his picture (paintings) collection to the museum.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
Музеям тяжело выживать в условиях капиталистического рынка – It's hard for museums to survive in the capitalist market conditions.
Feminine gender - женский род:
газета - Газете требуется сотрудник. - The newspaper needs an employee.
Газетам всегда требуются сотрудники. - Newspapers always need contributors (well, maybe contributors will be more correct).
аудитория - Этой аудитории нужен ремонт. - This lecture hall needs repairs. (rennovations)
Этим аудиториям ремонт не требуется. - The repairs for these lecture halls are not necessary. (These lecture halls don't need any rennovations).
Neuter - средний род:
окно - Подойди, пожалуйста, к этому окну. - Please approach this window. (Please, come to this window).
Все прильнули к окнам. - All was stuck to the windows. (Everybody stuck to windows) (well, I think that they're just windows, not the windows, though I could be wrong). The context is missing but from what I gather from this sentence it could mean, for example all windows in a building, or even all windows in all surrounding houses, or even something like "Everybody rushed to windows to see a comet in the sky).
здание - Идите к зданию вокзала. - Go towards the building of the station.
К историческим зданиям нужно относиться бережно. - Historic buildings need to be :wink: treated with care.
Thanks for the breakdown of things. But somethings that we've done in class confuse me further. Like {forgive the lack of cyrillic characters} why can it be "v Moskve" and "v Moskvu"?
в Москве - where? (She lives in Moskow)Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
в Москву - to where? (She's going to Moskow)
By the way
budet = it will beQuote:
Budu v Rossii, budet otlichno =))
budit = it's waking (smbd or smth) up
:PQuote:
Originally Posted by Оля
А могла и Moskau написать... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ
Дойч форева :P
в Москве - where? (She lives in Moscow) prepositional caseQuote:
Originally Posted by Оля
в Москву - to where? (She's going to Moscow) accusitive case
just remember that movement to = accusative. поеду в москву.
Thank you! Is that the only way the accusative is used? Cause I remember with phonecalls we'd say "Mojhno Deanu" etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo
There is an omitted verb there. The fact that the name is in the accusative makes it obvious that you want to talk to her. Perhaps the verb is 'позвать' in this context (like when you say 'врача!' ('[call a] doctor!') (acc.)) and the verb is omitted because it's obvious that you want the person who answers the phone to pozvat' Deanu, but Russians shorten that and keep the accusative name. It's obvious from the context, and it's only logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
the subject of the sentence goes into the acc. but with motion towards a place also uses acc. i cant think of anymore exceptions off the top of my head, its a bit early :)
Reading, listening and constant exposure to them. Don't try to remember unless you have a brain like a computer...concentrate on recognizing them when you see them, very gradually they will start to sink in. There's no shortcut or easy way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Hello,
Please give the spelling for спальня in the plural feminine inanimate.
Девочка любит спальн???. - The girl loves her bedrooms.
Thank you,
Scott
Hello,
To indicate masculine instrumental plural can автобус be used like in the second sentence?
Дети ездят в школу автобусом. - The children go to school by bus.
Дети ездят в школу автобусами. - The children go to school by buses.
If not, please give a simple sentence with автобусами in it.
Thank you,
Scott
"feminine inanimate" is unnecessary. Of course "спальня" is feminine inanimate. Instead of that you should point the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
She has several bedrooms???Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
The sentense is very odd.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
Дети ездят в школу на автобусе.
Старыми автобусами забит весь автобусный парк.Quote:
please give a simple sentence with автобусами in it
Завод гордится своими автобусами.
Можно с пересадками добраться автобусами до Серпухова, а оттуда на электричке до Москвы.
Please give a better sentence with спальни to indicate instrumental plural.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Thank you,
Scott
Is this sentence incorrect?
Дети ездят в школу автобусом. - The children go to school by bus.
Thank you,
Scott
NOOO:Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Это большая, удобная квартира с двумя спальнями.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
I'm too nervous :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Sorry, fortheether, that's because of my bad English :) I've read you question inattentive. It seemed to me that you asked "Is this sentence correct?"
So, YES, it is incorrect, sorry for my reaction :)
Дети ходят в школу пешком is correct, but why дети ездят в школу автобусом is not? Я езжу на работу автобусом. А иногда троллейбусом или маршруткой.
Ты как добираешься до работы? - Автобусом.
Ты на чём добираешься до работы? - На автобусе.
Так тоже говорят, но гораздо реже, и обычно про одно лицо, а не про нескольких, которые едут из разных мест. Из данной фразы непонятно, что это за дети - из одной семьи (то есть выходят утром из одной квартиры, садятся в один автобус и едут) или имеются в виду вообще все дети, которые ходят в эту школу (тогда выражение "дети ездят в школу автобусом" звучит очень коряво).Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ
"Я еду автобусом" в определенной ситуации звучит нормально, но в нейтральном предложении про детей это звучит немного странно, поэтому гораздо лучше сказать "на автобусе".
Можно сказать "автобусами" (обычно с глаголом "добираться"), но это в том случае, если по дороге человек пользуется несколькими автобусами и едет с пересадками. Бедные дети, им это надо? Пускай лучше ездят на автобусе.
из старого анекдота:
Дорогие отец, мама, дядя Вахтанг и тётя Нана! Пишет ваш Гиви. Я живу хорошо. Все мои однокурсники ездят в институт на автобусе, а я на Волге...
Дорогой Гиви! Мы все очень расстроились, когда получили твоё письмо! Твой отец никогда не позволит, чтобы его сын чувствовал, что он хуже других! Мы выслали тебе денег. Гиви, сынок, купи себе автобус!
[quote=Оля][quote="Оля":1rtabahb][quote=fortheether]Is this sentence incorrect?
Дети ездят в школу автобусом. - The children go to school by bus.
Thank you,
Scott[/quote]
NOOO[/quote]
I'm too nervous :oops:
Sorry, fortheether, that's because of my bad English :) I've read you question inattentive. It seemed to me that you asked "Is this sentence [b]correct[/b]?"
So, YES, it is incorrect, sorry for my reaction :)[/quote:1rtabahb]
No problem, I appreciate your help very much. It's very frustrating though. I got that sentence from page 60 of:
[url="http://www.amazon.com/Schaums-Outline-Russian-Grammar-Levine/dp/0070382387"]http://www.amazon.com/Schaums-Outline-R ... 0070382387[/url]
It seems it's one step forward and two steps back. Oh well.
Thank you,
Scott