Printable View
I'm working on my homework for class. We are learning how to ask for directions.
I need to say in Russian "Please tell me how to get to МГУ?". The exercise does not spell out the name of the Moscow State University but uses the initials.
МГУ needs to be in the accusative case but how to you decline intitals?
So would I say:
"Скажите, пожалйста, как попасть в МГУ?"
Do I need to do anything with the initials or is what I've written correct?
Thanks for your help!
Allison
Initials are usually indeclinable, especially ones that do not make a word that fits Russian grammar.
МГУ ending in a У sound is indeclinable.
However I've seen СПИД (which ending in a consonant, fits as a masculine noun), declined, e.g. СПИДа, although I'm not sure if this is correct or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancestry
Thank you. I did catch that typo after I posted the message. I don't type very well using my Russian keyboard.
Yes, this is correct. We say, for example, something like:Quote:
However I've seen СПИД (which ending in a consonant, fits as a masculine noun), declined, e.g. СПИДа, although I'm not sure if this is correct or not.
Очередной имярек (=John Doe) умер от СПИДа.
Is it correct in writing or just speach?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim84
:PQuote:
Is it correct in writing or just speech?
Both in writing and speech.
So what's the deal then? If it ends in a consonant you throw up an ending; if it's a vowel, you ignore it? Or is it just random?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim84
Well, you can't just decline an initial as it is the INITIAL letter of the last word. МГУ : У - университет. Since when do you decline the first letter of университет? (Correct answer: never) :lol:
Right?
You don't say Я поеду в СШУ :lol:
Тогда уж в СШЫ (Штаты) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
МГУ are initials. Эм-Гэ-У. It's not a word, and also ends in an У which doesn't fit with Russian grammar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Бармалей
СПИД is pronouced just like it's a word спид. It looks and sounds just like a masculine noun.
No. TATY may be right in saying it's sort of assumed a single-word form in спид, but it's still an abbreviation -- синдром приобретенного иммунодефицита. So, I put to you the question, when do you decline a letter in the MIDDLE of a word? Sometimes... :lol: back atcha...Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Yes, TATY is probably right. СПИД can be declined because it's an acronym (pronounced like one word спид), not initials, while МГУ is initials (pronounced by letters Эм-Гэ-У) as TATY said.
[quote=Бармалей]No. TATY may be right in saying it's sort of assumed a single-word form in спид, but it's still an abbreviation -- синдром приобретенного иммунодефицита. So, I put to you the question, when do you decline a letter in the MIDDLE of a word? Sometimes... :lol: back atcha...[/quote:3swtrsyk]Quote:
Originally Posted by "kalinka_vinnie":3swtrsyk
When do you do it in the middle of a word? Not seen that. My explanation is pretty sound.
If it's an acronym (e.g. NATO and AIDS are acronyms, BBC and USA are not), and the resulting word fits Russian grammar, decline it.
It's like foreign names. If the name fits you decline it. If it doesn't you leave it be.
Я знаю Джона (John)
Я знаю Шилу (Sheila)
Я знаю Беверли (Beverly)
Now, I'm not sure what happens with an acronym that ends in an A.
Say there was an organistion called ДИПА?
In Russian this name usually looks like Шейла.Quote:
Я знаю Шилу (Sheila)
I don't know but I'd suggest it would be always written as ДИПА (undeclined), but in informal conversation you could probably hear something like ДИПу, ДИПе etc.Quote:
Now, I'm not sure what happens with an acronym that ends in an A.
Say there was an organistion called ДИПА?
иммунодефицита = the ид in спид. So the "д" that gets the -a suffix is either in the middle or the beginning of the word depending on which position you want to take (whether you consider it to be the technical single word that it is or if you want to argue that it's actually just two words forming a compound word)-- which would contradict what KV was saying -- which is who my comment was intended for.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
It the same in English though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Бармалей
NATO's actions. The 's is added in the "middle". The whole point is СПИД functions just like a word, so what it means is irrelevant.
????Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
NATO= North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which means you would say "The North Atlantic Treaty Organization's spokesman said 'blah blah blah.'" What middle are you talking about?
My comment stil holds, you don't decline the initial itself. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough, but you can NOT replace the initial with another letter for your declenation purposes, because then you misspell the whole word.
США != СШУ
Adding an 'a' to the end of the word is fine, since you don't change the initial...
Ah. That makes much more sense to me now...Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
I don't know what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Бармалей
People aren't going to saw the whole thing though, they shorten it to NATO, even in the possesive, NATO's.
I still don't get what your point is.
синдром приобретенного иммунодефицита. You seem to be asking about why its СПИД and not СПИ, since it is 3 words, why is it not 3 letters?
The reason why you decline the "letter in the middle" is because the acronym happens to end in that letter.
It's the same in English though, "immunodeficiency" is one word but it is still AIDS, and not AIS. Firstly, in English it can also be Acquire immune deficiency syndrome, which is four seperate words. Notice though that in HIV the D is not used. Same with Russian ВИЧ. I expect the Russian form has followed the English convention.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing -- what I understood you to be saying was that ... well, never mind -- I understand what KV was saying in the first place now, and it would only add to further the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY