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Thread: Question about "быть" (and a couple other unrelated questions)

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    1) There is no difference in meaning between быть + instrumental and быть + nominative. Instrumental is more common though.
    "У меня была собака" is completely different matter. Here "собака"is a subject and requires nominative only. Literally "A dog was at me." You was misguided by the free word order in Russian.

    2) What you describe is called "толковый словарь", you can try to google. However good Language1 - Language2 dictionaries also contain different meanings and examples of usage. There is good one Онлайн-словари Slovoed Online: англо-русский, испанско-русский, итальянско-русский, немецко-русский, французско-русский онлайн перевод, but it seems it is English-Russian only.

    3) Причастия (participles) are very common in Russian as well as in English and IMHO there is not much difference in usage. What is the problem with them exactly?
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo View Post
    3) Причастия (participles) are very common in Russian as well as in English and IMHO there is not much difference in usage. What is the problem with them exactly?
    I believe Thatguyoverthere wants to know when it "sounds natural" to use a participial construction в разговорной речи, and when it would sound MORE natural to use a который construction instead.

    And speaking as a non-Russian, my gut feeling is that in SPEECH, it's generally better to use a который clause in most cases, because using a participle would sound overly bookish.

    But I would qualify this in two ways:

    (1) Any of the four participle types (present active, present passive, past active, past passive) may be likely to appear in speech if they're part of a traditional "fixed expression" involving a particular verb, or if a participle has "taken on a life of its own" as an commonly used adjective. For example, as in говорящая обезьяна, "a talking monkey" -- говорящий is a present active participle, but it's used so often that you (as a foreigner learning Russian) might as well memorize it as an adjective.*

    (2) However, the past passive participles (PPP) are, I would guess, probably used in speech more often than the other three types of participle -- especially because the short forms of PPPs can be used as predicate adjectives. (Город был разрушен в землетрясении, "The city was destroyed in the earthquake.")

    * However, Thatguyoverthere, compare these two sentences:

    1. Мальчику снился сон о говорящей обезьяне.
    (The boy had a dream about a talking monkey.)

    2. Мальчику снился сон об обезьяне, говорящей по телефону.
    (The boy had a dream about a monkey talking on the telephone.)

    The first sentence (with the participle functioning as an adjective) would be totally normal in colloquial speech, but my guess is that the second sentence (with the participle introducing a subordinate clause) would be less common in speech, and instead people would be more likely to use a relative clause with который:

    3. Мальчику снился сон об обезьяне, которая говорит по телефону.
    (The boy had a dream about a monkey, who was talking on the telephone.)

  3. #3
    kib
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    in SPEECH, it's generally better to use a который clause in most cases, because using a participle would sound overly bookish.

    1. Мальчику снился сон о говорящей обезьяне.
    (The boy had a dream about a talking monkey.)

    2. Мальчику снился сон об обезьяне, говорящей по телефону.
    (The boy had a dream about a monkey talking on the telephone.)

    The first sentence (with the participle functioning as an adjective) would be totally normal in colloquial speech, but my guess is that the second sentence (with the participle introducing a subordinate clause) would be less common in speech, and instead people would be more likely to use a relative clause with который:

    3. Мальчику снился сон об обезьяне, которая говорит по телефону.
    (The boy had a dream about a monkey, who was talking on the telephone.)
    Hello! I think you are quite right. Причастия и деепричастия sounds bookish in speech. We don't say "автомобиль, едущий на красный свет" (a car going on a red light) or "выйдя на улицу, я увидел..." (having left the house I saw...) we say rather "автомобиль, который ехал на красный свет" and "когда я вышел на улицу, я увидел..."

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    kib
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    By the way "Город был разрушен при землетрясении" "The city was destroyed in the earthquake.

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