Thread: Lesson 13 questions

Originally Posted by Doomer

I think your translation is incorrect

Why do you think it is incorrect!?

Imagine you are a pilot of a plane. You fly to many different destinations.
And we are talking about Hawaii, for example.
I wonder if you have already flown there. And I ask: "А ты туда уже летал?" or simply "Ты туда летал?"

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

Why do you think it is incorrect!?

Because "Ты туда летал?" can be translated as "Have you flown there?"
First of all it doesn't have the word "plane" and second the question presumes that it is unknown if the person ever flown "there", however original question specifically implies that person been, in fact, in the place but it is unclear what transportation has been used - "Did you go there by plane?"

Originally Posted by Doomer

Because "Ты туда летал?" can be translated as "Have you flown there?"
First of all it doesn't have the word "plane" and second the question presumes that it is unknown if the person ever flown "there", however original question specifically implies that person been, in fact, in the place but it is unclear what transportation has been used - "Did you go there by plane?"

I think you misunderstand what Zorro meant. Zorro wrote: "Did you go there by plane?"--is this Ты там летал?
I hope we both agree that the use of "там" is definitely incorrect, it should be "туда".

However, you think that the question was about the means of transportation. I do not think so. As you see, there is no word for "plane" (самолёт) in the translation proposed by Zorro. And I do not think it is because Zorro does not know how to say "самолёт" in Russian. I see another reason for that:

Zorro just meant the question "Did you go there?". However, the foreigners are taught the following way: the translation of the verb "to go" into Russian depends on the means of transportation used. They learn: "to go by foot" - "идти/ходить", "to go by car (or any other ground transportation)" - "ехать/ездить", "to go by plane" - "лететь/летать". So, Zorro specified "by plane" not because it was a part of the question, but just in order to make it clear which verb should be used: "Did you go there? (by plane)" - "Ты туда летал?"

That's how I understand the question.

However, dependimg on the context, other translations are possible:
- Ты туда летал? (if a whole round trip is in focus)
- Ты туда летел? (if a one-way trip in its process is in focus)
- Ты туда полетел? (if the decision to go is in focus)
and some other possibilities as well.

That's why I wrote the context is required.

Originally Posted by Doomer

Because "Ты туда летал?" can be translated as "Have you flown there?"

Agree. And I guess that is what the question was about.

Originally Posted by Doomer

second the question presumes that it is unknown if the person ever flown "there"

Yes. It is how I understand it.

Originally Posted by Doomer

however original question specifically implies that person been, in fact, in the place but it is unclear what transportation has been used

It is not clear from the original question. But the translation proposed by Zorro gives a clue: there's no word for "plane", so it's not the logical center of the question, it's just to define the verb choice for "to go".

Let's Zorro judge Maybe my interpretation is wrong, in fact?

Sorry it has taken so long to respond. I appreciate all your help and thoughtful discussion. I've been without internet service for a while and then came the hurricane.

The sentence "Did you go there by plane?" came from a translation excercise with a series of sentences. The sentences preceding the one I asked about are, "Have you ever been in the south of the USSR? Yes, I was six days in Yalta. I like Yalta much more than Sochi.", then, "Did you go there by plane?" Would that still be Ты туда летал?

Z

Originally Posted by zorro

"Did you go there by plane?" Would that still be Ты туда летал?

Summing up what Bob and Doomer have said, note that Ты туда летал? has more than one possible answer:

Да, на самолёте. "Yes, [I flew] by airplane."
Нет, на вертолёте*. "No, [I flew] by helicopter."
Нет, я ездил на поезде. "No, [I went] by train."

So you could phrase the question as Ты туда летал? if the questioner wants to know whether the person traveled by air or by land or by water. If it's known that the traveler flew, but the questioner doesn't know whether it was in an airplane, helicopter, hot-air balloon, alien spacecraft, etc., then Ты туда летал на самолёте? would be the appropriate phrasing. You could even say Ты туда ездил на самолёте?, using the more generic verb for travelling-by-vehicle, instead of the verb "to fly".

* P.S. The root -верт- means "spin; rotate", by the way -- so a вертолёт is basically "a thing that flies by spinning", while самолёт is basically "a self-flying thing")

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

You could even say Ты туда ездил на самолёте?, using the more generic verb for travelling-by-vehicle, instead of the verb "to fly".

Sorry, but I think "ездить на самолёте" is too awkward. I would hardly ever say it like that. We say "я ездил на поезде", but "я летал на самолёте".
Yes, the verb "ездить" can be used as a generic verb if the means of transportation is not mentioned at all. So, I can say "я ездил в Америку" (I travelled to the US) regardless if a used a plain, a train or a boat to get there. We do say it like this, imagine a possible dialogue:
- Ты был в Нью-Йорке?
- Да, я ездил туда в прошлом году.
- На машине?
- Нет, я летал на самолёте.

But if travelling by air is explicitly mentioned, then "ездить" sounds strange. At least to me.

I checked yandex (the Russian search engine):
"летал на самолёте" - 50,000 occurrences, "ездил на самолёте" - 264 occurrences (I only searched for the fixed expression by using the quotation marks). So, someone may use it occasionally, but I would not recommend.