Thread: How about creating a wiki for common words?

In a couple of recent threads the list of 1000 most common words in Russian on Master Russian has been mentioned. This made me think about creating a wiki version of the list (actually the 5000 words list compiled by the same source as the Master Russian one). I would like to set something like this up, but of course I'd need a bit of help from you.

I am thinking of a wiki where each word from the list has its own page, and speakers of Russian can add translations, examples, grammatical hints (such as 'this verb takes objects in dative case'), and speakers of other languages can provide translations in their own language and possibly additional hints for Russian-speaking learners of said languages.

For easy off-line reference it would be possible to offer PDF or spreadsheet files with just word / translation pairs for the various languages.

What other features would you like to see? Would you be interested in contributing?

Robin

As I mentioned before, I'll help in any way I can. Specifically, I can edit anything written in English. If Russian natives will be providing translations and helpful tips about each word, I can edit those. Or, if you need something written in English explaining the site, a section about learning these words for English-speakers, etc., I'd be happy to help out. Let me know what I can do, and I'll think of other things to add.

Originally Posted by bitpicker

In a couple of recent threads the list of 1000 most common words in Russian on Master Russian has been mentioned. This made me think about creating a wiki version of the list (actually the 5000 words list compiled by the same source as the Master Russian one). I would like to set something like this up, but of course I'd need a bit of help from you.

I am thinking of a wiki where each word from the list has its own page, and speakers of Russian can add translations, examples, grammatical hints (such as 'this verb takes objects in dative case'), and speakers of other languages can provide translations in their own language and possibly additional hints for Russian-speaking learners of said languages.

For easy off-line reference it would be possible to offer PDF or spreadsheet files with just word / translation pairs for the various languages.

What other features would you like to see? Would you be interested in contributing?

Robin

Have you checked out Wiktionary? There are plenty of holes, but there's already a decent amount of Russian on the English version of it. There are definitely some extra features that could be added with an exclusively Russian-English wiki, but I wanted to make sure that you are aware of Wiktionary to save you some work if you decide that it's adequate for what you envision.

I'm not thinking of an exclusive Russian / English wiki but one centered on these 5000 Russian words, with translations into any language we can muster. The trouble with wiktionary etc. is that you never know how widely used a given word is. And books with "basic vocabulary" usually concern themselves with typical tourist vocabulary and less with words you may actually encounter in written language. This list of 5000 words seems to have been compiled from a diverse range of written texts. It could act as a starting point for learners trying to get a widespread knowledge of useful words. More a tool for actively learning vocabulary, rather than another dictionary.

The original idea was just to create a spreadsheet with a line for each word, and a column for each language we find someone for to manage. It doesn't have to be a wiki, that was just a suggestion.

Robin

That's a good idea. We already feature example sentences for a new word from the list every week day (Word of the Day).
If anybody would like to participate, we have simple tools for you to enter example sentences for new words.
However, we always double-check the examples to assure accuracy and we mention you in the credits.
If you insist on wiki, we can help as much as we can and set up one on MasterRussian.org

Do you mean something like a Swadesh list?

By the way the number of 5000 looks too big. If a person starts learning a language with "mandatory" 5000 words it will make learning any language as hard as Chinese (it is supposed that for being not bad in Chinese you need to know "only" 2000 hieroglyphs ) .

Swadesh list is different from the frequency lists. It has only 207 words maximum.
And it serves a different purpose--to compare several languages by their basic vocabulary.

I don't insist on a wiki at all. This was triggered by the thread in which kybarry asked for a printable version of the list. I pulled the 5000 words list from the site you are linking to underneath the list on masterrussian.com, and made a spreadsheet of the list. What's missing are translations. We could just as well collaborate on such a spreadsheet or in fact anything else to do with it.

Robin

I have spreadsheet with 500 top nouns by frequency. Has translations in Eng. I am using for case/agreement exercises. If you want where do I put it? Also am working on a verb list, and have adjective spreadsheet for agreement exercises. Same workbook.

Let's first see where this is going. If you have a different source for your 500 nouns than where my 5000 words come from, then it would mean adding them to the 5000 word spreadsheet by hand. If it is the same it could be as easy as copy and paste.

You can always send me the file by PM to robinpfeifer -at- web.de and I can find out whether I can integrate it.

Robin

What is about ready-for-use books like that?
http://www.flibusta.net/b/130935

But if we just set up a wiki, then it's up to us to enter the words...

We can do it as and when we feel inspired.. Russian speakers can use the wiki too, in the other direction. Perhaps it would be possible to bulk upload certain types of files into the wiki, and the wiki can have sections for different types of grammar, phrases or words.

User generated content is definitely the way to go....

I quite like the wiki idea but how do you get the software/server up and running; I mean, where do you put it on?

Robin you work in IT right? If we were to do this, what would be the easiest way?

I can install wiki software.

Another option is to use Google Docs. You can have many people edit the same document there!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7y7NafWXeM

Originally Posted by Johanna

But if we just set up a wiki, then it's up to us to enter the words...

We can do it as and when we feel inspired.. Russian speakers can use the wiki too, in the other direction. Perhaps it would be possible to bulk upload certain types of files into the wiki, and the wiki can have sections for different types of grammar, phrases or words.

User generated content is definitely the way to go....

I quite like the wiki idea but how do you get the software/server up and running; I mean, where do you put it on?

Robin you work in IT right? If we were to do this, what would be the easiest way?

I would be interesting in helping with a wiki, too. I see one of the greatest advantages of a English-Russian wiki on this site is that there will be plenty of space for detailed usage notes, which might be more difficult to do in Google Docs.

Originally Posted by Johanna

Robin you work in IT right? If we were to do this, what would be the easiest way?[/b]

I looked into wikihost.org and set up a free wiki there for testing, but it could just as well be an extension of masterrussian.net on their servers. Google Docs is also a valid option. The question is what we want to do with it. We could go beyond the 5000 words list idea and make it a general wiki listing information on Russian. We should gather ideas about what we want to achieve, and then look at the advantages and disadvantages of each possible solution. If it is going to be an addition to masterrussian.net and *.com we should think about what would be useful and not just a reduplication of what is already there. I have to confess I rarely ever visit the *.com page...

I have contacted the originator of the word list, and he sent me a link to a newer, and as he says more representative list. The lists are under Creative Commons licenses and may be used for any purpose, with proper attribution.

@ Почемучка: you would be interested. But you find it interesting. It is interesting, you are interested.

Robin

Originally Posted by bitpicker

@ Почемучка: you would be interested. But you find it interesting. It is interesting, you are interested.

That was just a typo -- I'm a native speaker! Well, that's embarrassing. Having not lived in an English-speaking country in quite some time, I find that I make a lot more random mistakes than I used to, especially if I am not paying full attention to what I am writing. I guess my brain has a finite amount of language ability!

Reduplication of content from .com wouldn't make much sense as it's already there.

More "representative" probably means that the author used a larger set of texts to derive the list. I expect the new list to change very little. The newer list would basically be the same.

I agree with bitpicker that we should first decide what we want to achieve. A list of 5000 Russian words with examples?


bitpicker: what is a wiki extension you mentioned?
I can install a wiki on a subdomain like wiki.masterrussian.net or to a new domain like masterrussian.org

Originally Posted by почемучка

That was just a typo -- I'm a native speaker!

Sorry for that... I thought you were a native speaker, but then I checked the location underneath your avatar and thought maybe I was wrong...

Robin

Originally Posted by MasterAdmin

what is a wiki extension you mentioned?

I did not mean 'wiki extension' but a wiki as an extension to masterrussian.net as opposed to something independent, which was what I had in mind initially.

Robin

It will be somewhat independent because wiki is a separate software from the forum. I can try and merge it into the forum as much as possible but it will be different from the forum itself. Any other ideas?