Thread: The Gerund

Although I'm familiar with the gerund in English, I can't conceptualize its use in Russian. (Perhaps, another case of proper grammar conflicting with my native, broken Russian.)

Is it used in the same way as an English gerund? For example, can I translate "the love of (for) reading" as,

любовь читая

or would this mean something else?

Originally Posted by The Sloth

любовь читая

or would this mean something else?

There's no Gerund in Russian, so the phrase above has no sense whatsoever.
BTW, that's why ESL Russians learners often use infinitive ('I like to read') instead of Gerund in English. It's completely new concept for them and it's hard to grasp at first.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

There's no Gerund in Russian, so the phrase above has no sense whatsoever.
BTW, that's why ESL Russians learners often use infinitive ('I like to read') instead of Gerund in English. It's completely new concept for them and it's hard to grasp at first.

Are you sure? I'm looking at my grammar book now -- "Russian: A Guide to Contemporary Usage," and there is an entire section on the formation and use of gerunds. But, I was just wondering if the phrase given above would be usable as well, as a gerund.

Ex.,

Слушая радио, можно узнавать, что происходит в мире.

Is the bold-faced word not a gerund, or do most Russians simply collapse the gerund/participle distinction while keeping the respective forms separate ?

Originally Posted by The Sloth

Are you sure?

Absolutely.

If your reading skills are good enough there are hundreds of links to grammar sites (google for герундий в русском), where you can learn about the ways of expressing Gerund in Russian. It doesn't mean the Gerund itself exists in Russian language, though.

Поскольку формы герундия в русском языке нет, его значение может передаваться существительным, инфинитивом, деепричастием, глаголом...

i.e. Gerund could be expressed in Russian through the noun, infinitive, participle or verb, depending on the structure of the sentence. There's no universal "Russian Gerund".

Слушая радио, можно узнавать, что происходит в мире.

It's called "деепричастие". BTW, I checked my dictionary to find out how it's translated into English, and the translation was "Russian Gerund". This "term" can only confuse the students, because деепричастие is closer to participles, imho. It differs from Gerund in many ways.

Listening to radio... (i.e. while I'm listening to radio) = Слушая радио
I like listening to radio = Я люблю слушать радио

PS. A few examples:
http://www.abc-english-grammar.com/onli ... s_Gram.txt

I think - at least I know I was - we are taught how to form a Russian noun/adjective etc from a verb which in English is essentially a gerund. In English a gerund is just adding -ing. The gerund is then used in various ways.

But Russian does not differentiate between He is reading and He reads (they use aspect). Spanish has this. We call it the progressive tense.

But when learning things like "Слушая" we are taught it is like the gerund formed from to listen: "listening." It should be noted that this is separate from the progressive tense.

So, I think it is just a misnomer. In English, we use the gerund in many ways, whereas Russian does not.

A lot of English language Russian textbooks call деепричастия gerunds - I think the more modern way of thinking of them in English terms is as verbal adverbs, читая being an imperfective verbal adverb (IVA), and прочитав being a perfective verbal adverb (PVA).

As gRomoZeka said, I think you can also consider these 'adverbial participles'. Страдательные и действительные причастия would then be considered 'adjectival' participles.

I think that the English terms confuse things no matter which ones you use, particularly because different texts use different terms, and that it's better to learn the Russian terms directly and to use Russian examples to get an understanding of how they are used. I say this mostly because I made the same mistake when I was first learning about "gerunds" in Russian and ultimately found abandoning the English terms helped to avoid confusion.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

BTW, that's why ESL Russians learners often use infinitive ('I like to read') instead of Gerund in English.

А нейтив как скажет? "I like reading"?

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

BTW, that's why ESL Russians learners often use infinitive ('I like to read') instead of Gerund in English.

А нейтив как скажет? "I like reading"?

Думаю скажет-). Я слышал от нэйтива "I like fishing" и "I like writing" -). Абсолютно нормально).

Originally Posted by The Sloth

Although I'm familiar with the gerund in English, I can't conceptualize its use in Russian. (Perhaps, another case of proper grammar conflicting with my native, broken Russian.)

Is it used in the same way as an English gerund? For example, can I translate "the love of (for) reading" as,

любовь читая

or would this mean something else?

Well your first problem is that you expect that because English uses a gerund in a certain context, Russia will use it too. That's not how language works. Also in English "a love for reading", reading is a noun (derived from a verb), technically.

Originally Posted by The Sloth

Are you sure? I'm looking at my grammar book now -- "Russian: A Guide to Contemporary Usage,"

Excellent choice! One of my all-time favourite Russian textbooks.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

BTW, that's why ESL Russians learners often use infinitive ('I like to read') instead of Gerund in English.

А нейтив как скажет? "I like reading"?

Cambridge Grammar of English:

Hate, like, love and prefer
Hate, like, love and prefer can be followed either by -ing or by a to-infinitive. The difference in meaning is often not great, but -ing emphasises the action or event in itself, while the infinitive places the emphasis more on the results of the action or event.

The -ing form often implies enjoyment (or lack of it), and the infinitive is often used for expressing preferences:

I really like my teacher and I like my class. I like being in year five.
(emphasis on the process itself and enjoyment of it)

I like home-made soup. I like to make a panful and then it lasts me a couple of days.
(emphasis more on result and the habit or preference)



In the case of prefer, if alternatives are stated, they are linked by the preposition to, not infinitive to:
Would you prefer writing to telephoning if you wanted to put something across?


___________________________
I like reading joke books (to cheer myself up).
I like to read a proper grammar book (to solve my doubts).

[But I'm afraid some natives will use the first one that crosses their mind ]