Thread: The German keep silent

Surely what I say will be an obviousness for Russians, but since this page is read by people from all over the world... Many years ago it was surprising to me the word "немецктй" applied to German people with no "apparent" connection with the previous and next words in the Dictionary, beeing, as they are the words "германец", "германский". This was the reason that was given to me by a russian philologist: As it is known Katherine the Great / die Grosse (sorry for the bad joke, I don't know if she was fat or slim) invited a certain number of German families to colonize some territories, so did the spanish king Charles III at the same time, but obviously in Spain. When the Russian addressed to these Germans, they simply didn't answer (they didn't know Russian) and keep silent, what is the meaning of "немецктй", "who becomes dumb". In the Middle Age various Caliphs of muslim kingdoms in Spain had a personal guard named "Los Mudos", "The Dumb", that was composed by persons not speaking arab nor spanish languages, so beeing not able to comunicate with the rest of citizens. Surely to avoid them taking part in the continuos plots that finally, maked the Muslims collapsed in Spain, more than the push of Northern christian kingdoms, only slightly more unified than the Muslims.

"Los Mudos" -

As you have seen in my previous are some errors in Engles: "continuos" for "continuous", "maked" for "made" and perhaps any other. Sorry, sorry

The original meaning of the word "немец" is not "dumb", but just "a mute"="немой". I guess, Russian peasants were nicer than Spanish caliphs.

actually, in English "dumb"'s primary meaning is немой (mute), глупый is the colloquial meaning.

As in dumbfounded = speechless

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

actually, in English "dumb"'s primary meaning is немой (mute), глупый is the colloquial meaning.

As in dumbfounded = speechless

I wholeheartedly disagree. I'm willing to bet that if you ask 100 people what dumb means, 85 of them will first assume that it means "stupid." You are right, that "dumb" is in fact used to refer to "mute" but there is no way in hell that this is the primary meaning for Joe Average.

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

actually, in English "dumb"'s primary meaning is немой (mute), глупый is the colloquial meaning.

As in dumbfounded = speechless

I wholeheartedly disagree. I'm willing to bet that if you ask 100 people what dumb means, 85 of them will first assume that it means "stupid." You are right, that "dumb" is in fact used to refer to "mute" but there is no way in hell that this is the primary meaning for Joe Average.

Dumb = stupid is a modern meaning, and also colloquial.
Dumb = mute is the original meaning.

If someone writes dumb in a formal letter, essay, etc. it is understood to mean mute, not stupid.

Good for the average Joe! In this context it means "mute", that is what Vladi meant and not "stupid". That's all. Bicker all you want!

The average Joe may by default understand Dumb as Stupid, but they will also know it means mute as well.

Here's some additional information to bring more water to the water mill.

dumb
O.E. dumb "silent, unable to speak," from PIE *dheubh- "confusion, stupefaction, dizziness." O.E., Goth. (thumb) and O.N. (dumbr) forms meant only "mute, speechless;" in O.H.G. (thumb) it meant both this and "stupid," and in Mod.Ger. this latter became the only sense. Meaning "foolish, ignorant" was occasionally in Eng. from c.1323, but modern use (1823) comes from infl. of Ger. dumm. Applied to silent contrivances, hence dumbwaiter (1749). To dumb down is from 1933.

mute
c.1374, mewet, "silent," from O.Fr. muet, dim. of mut, mo, from L. mutus "silent, dumb," probably from imitative base *mu- (cf. Skt. mukah "dumb," Gk. myein "to be shut," of the mouth). Assimilated in form in 16c. to L. mutus. The verb is first attested 1861. Musical noun sense first recorded 1811, of stringed instruments, 1841, of horns.

IMHO, calling someone dumb as in stupid doesn't happen that much and sounds pretty childish. There are a lot of better words to choose from for this purpose.

Exactly. If an adult said to me "he's dumb" I'd think "mute", because the meaning "stupid" is a bit immature. But often "dumb" is used with deaf, so it's pretty obvious what it means. E.g. "He's deaf and dumb".

Plus there is:
Dumbfounded
Dumbstruck

Which both mean the same thing I think.

Anyways, it was good to know for average Gerty

Originally Posted by basurero

IMHO, calling someone dumb as in stupid doesn't happen that much and sounds pretty childish. There are a lot of better words to choose from for this purpose.

But without dumb in this context, how would you ever say such colorful things as "dumba$$." I hardly think you're calling someone a "mutea$$," and "stupida$$" just lacks a certain poetic ring to it!

Originally Posted by Vladi

"немецктй"

немецкий

dumba$$ is its own word and has its own meaning. So is "dumby". You, Barmely, as an ESL learner, will just have to learn the separate meanings of all words containing "dumb"

Honestly, around here I never hear the word "dumb" about a person. "Stupid" is a much more powerful word.

Is it possible to say 'stupida**'?

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Is it possible to say 'stupida**'?

IF I heard that, I would find it humorous.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

dumba$$ is its own word and has its own meaning. So is "dumby". You, Barmely, as an ESL learner, will just have to learn the separate meanings of all words containing "dumb"

Honestly, around here I never hear the word "dumb" about a person. "Stupid" is a much more powerful word.

Points:
a)Obviously dumbass derives from somewhere. It's not "its own word and its own meaning" anymore than "cookbook" is unrelated to the words "cook" and "book." Get a grip, man. You can feel free to admit that I'm right any second now...
b)"Dumby?" LOL. I think what you meant to say is "dummy" which is derived from "dumb." Only a dummy spells it "dumby" though.
c)I suppose the ESL comment is supposed to be a bit of humor. The only thing I find humorous, though, is that this post of yours was so wildly "dumb" and was written by a "dumb" person. And guess what? I don't mean "mute" in either of those contexts. The simple fact of the matter is that I am right, and you're utterly and completely wrong, and you are either too "dumb" or too petty to acknowledge it.

Take a beer and relax, man! Brighten up, I thought you of all people could take a joke!

The point remains: dumb = person who can not speak (in this context). Can't we just all get along?