The difference between 'sat' and 'sitting' explained.

Ok.

I am English and I always have got this one confused, along with a load of other people. The amount of Enlish people who may say this:

"I was sat on the chair when the TV broke"

Now this is probably incorrect. If you were 'sat' on the chair, then this means that a person personally placed you there (like an usher at the theatre may do). What should be written is:

"I was sitting on the chair when the TV broke"

EDIT: Just to add to this - You could say I sat on the chair when the TV broke as this would mean that you yourself sat down as opposed to someone else sitting you down.

Hope that helps anyone who has gotten confused about the difference before - although if you said it, everyone would understand you, and 99.9% of people would not pick you up about it - although my Dad would! :twisted:

Andy

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Originally Posted by andrewsco

Ok.

I am English and I always have got this one confused, along with a load of other people. The amount of Enlish people who may say this:

"I was sat on the chair when the TV broke"

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:o :o Dude, NOBODY says that. It rings all bells, whistles and inflatable duckies. Even foreigners don't make that mistake!

BTW, shouldn't this be in ESL or English for Russians?

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=571021

It's a Brithish thing, KV :)

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Originally Posted by andrewsco

"I was sat on the chair when the TV broke"

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I do not care if this is a British thing or not. It sounds terrible.

What about trainers? In BrE that means sneakers. Canadiens usually say running shoes. Different countries, different words/grammar.

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Hope that helps anyone who has gotten confused about the difference before - although if you said it, everyone would understand you, and 99.9% of people would not pick you up about it - although my Dad would!

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I think you mean that 99.9% of the British people would understand you if you said "I was sat on the chair".

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

What about trainers? In BrE that means sneakers. Canadiens usually say running shoes. Different countries, different words/grammar.

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Hope that helps anyone who has gotten confused about the difference before - although if you said it, everyone would understand you, and 99.9% of people would not pick you up about it - although my Dad would!

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I think you mean that 99.9% of the British people would understand you if you said "I was sat on the chair".

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No, all English speakers would understand it. It is obvious what the person is saying. But most would also recognise that it is gramatically incorrect.

Where I am from (Essex in England), loads of (poor stupid) people say things like "I see you yesterday". They shouldn't let people like that breed.

I didn't say that only the British people would understand it. I remember Americans and the British arguing over whether it is possible to say: I haven't seen him since two months ago. Most of them came to the conclusion that it was grammatically correct though none of them would say so.

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I didn't say that only the British people would understand it. I remember Americans and the British arguing over whether it is possible to say: I haven't seen him since two months ago. Most of them came to the conclusion that it was grammatically correct though none of them would say so.

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what is exactly the problem with that phrase, btw?
there are some other cases in other languages when commonplace expressions are considered ungrammatical; imo it's just the case of the norms lagging behind the language. phrases like "Ms. Jones and me" are another example...
in russian we have this too; for ex. the word "netu" is a case of this...

BTW, a question to the native English speakers: does a phrase "I'm going there tomorrow" sound weird or ungrammatical to any of you?

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/sh...ghlight=months
You can read the whole discussion if you want. It's pretty long so it'll take me long to tell you it.

Please explain "netu" to me. It drives me crazy when I hear it because my dictionary says it is colloq. for "nyet" but people seem to use it a negative response in place of a lot of words and phrases.
i.e. "Who was at the door?" "Netu."
"What did you buy at the store?" "Netu." :?: :?: :?:

Your sentences are incorrect. I have never heard anyone say so. I would say:
"Who was at the door?" "Nikto" (or Nikavo)
"What did you buy at the store?" "Nichego"

I know the sentences have incorrect answers and that is what confuses me. It seems "netu" is popping up in all sorts of inappropriate places. I frequently hear it used this way and am wondering if this is some sort of "new slang" or maybe a regional (Moscow) thing?

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/sh...ghlight=months
You can read the whole discussion if you want. It's pretty long so it'll take me long to tell you it.

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it looks like the ultimate in nitpicking to me. Normal, educated people do speak like that, and that's all that matters, imo. Plus, "two months ago" is quite a definite point in time, no less definite than Christmas.

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Originally Posted by JB

I know the sentences have incorrect answers and that is what confuses me. It seems "netu" is popping up in all sorts of inappropriate places. I frequently hear it used this way and am wondering if this is some sort of "new slang" or maybe a regional (Moscow) thing?

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It's definitely not a Moscow thing.
But it's colloquial for "No, there is/are none", or the like. Like, "u tebja est' den'gi? -- Netu" ("do you have any money? -- No, I don't (have any)"). As opposed to the (supposedly more literate) "u tebja est' den'gi? -- Net" (--"No."), which in this case is just a negative answer to the question and sounds a bit more abrupt to me. Sometimes its just interchangeable without any changes in meaning, e.g. "esli u vas netu doma" (if you don't have a home).
So it refers to the rejection of existence (and other things that are expressed through expressions of existence in Russian, like possession as in this example).

BTW, do you have any comments on my "I'm going there tomorrow" phrase by any chance?

"I'm going there tomorrow." Is not incorrect in American speech, but may get a red mark from an English teacher if it appeared on a written assignment (present and future tense used inappropliately together). But it is common to see such usage in newspapers and TV because these are presented in the everyday language of the public.

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Originally Posted by JB

"I'm going there tomorrow." Is not incorrect in American speech, but may get a red mark from an English teacher if it appeared on a written assignment (present and future tense used inappropliately together). But it is common to see such usage in newspapers and TV because these are presented in the everyday language of the public.

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well, that's what I always thought, but I was corrected once so I started having doubts. Probably the person was just nitpicking.
I actually think I did see this even in one of my old English language textbooks.

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it looks like the ultimate in nitpicking to me. Normal, educated people do speak like that, and that's all that matters, imo. Plus, "two months ago" is quite a definite point in time, no less definite than Christmas.

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I can't get what you mean. Can you clarify your claim?

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

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it looks like the ultimate in nitpicking to me. Normal, educated people do speak like that, and that's all that matters, imo. Plus, "two months ago" is quite a definite point in time, no less definite than Christmas.

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I can't get what you mean. Can you clarify your claim?

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I simply claim that this phrase is just fine, and there are no problems with it except in the mind of a few select grammaticians :)

Well, to be honest, I prefer native speakers' answers. If you haven't got the time to read the whole discussion or at least part of it to get what makes English speakers think this sentence is not grammatical, you then will always think it's entirely correct. That's my point.
Furthermore, I'd say that sentence of yours was correct too. At least, for the British :D In AmE I'd say I'm going to go there tomorrow.
I think we should move this thread to "English for Russians".

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

Well, to be honest, I prefer native speakers' answers. If you haven't got the time to read the whole discussion or at least part of it to get what makes English speakers think this sentence is not grammatical, you then will always think it's entirely correct. That's my point.
Furthermore, I'd say that sentence of yours was correct too. At least, for the British :D In AmE I'd say I'm going to go there tomorrow.
I think we should move this thread to "English for Russians".

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My understanding was that there were native speakers on the both sides of the issue in that thread; if that is not the case I'll have to retract my words.

btw I think "I'm going to go..." is 100% formal and correct by any standard in any variety of English; without "to go" it's probably colloquial but still fine to use, imo.

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btw I think "I'm going to go..." is 100% formal and correct by any standard in any variety of English; without "to go" it's probably colloquial but still fine to use, imo.

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You're right that "I'm going to go" is entirely correct in any dialect of English. I never care about formal language. If a native speaker says that 'this is correct' I consider it correct as well. When my university teacher (who I don't quite like) says that what I say is not grammatical I just keep silent and think: How does she know what is grammatical and what is not? Then if I tell her that a native speaker read my essay (for example) and said that it's fine that means it's fine. I have never learned formal language. I study English to communcate with other people. To me, it's strange to see formal posts when discussing commonplace things.

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

You're right that "I'm going to go" is entirely correct in any dialect of English. I never care about formal language. If a native speaker says that 'this is correct' I consider it correct as well. ...

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You can't really think this way. You can't imagine how many people speak a non-grammatical English, even if they are native English people.
She's a teacher and probably spent years studying the correct English (grammar, spelling, etymology) and not the one that everybody speaks.
For example, you can hear a lot of people say "it don't matter" or "what you said?" which are okay but only as an everyday English, and some people won't even notice the mistake. But both are grammatically incorrect.

I think this problem is the same everywhere whatever the language.

To be honest, I am English through and through and honestly say the phrase all the time. I am from Leeds though so my Yorkshire accent makes me sound much worse!

The whole point of this thread was mainly to give anyone help who has this problem/has had in the past, but also to see whether other english/english speaking people have the same problem with grammar in general - this was just an example as my father pointed it out when I mentioned Russian language and this forum...

Still interesting to hear comments etc...

Andy

"I will be going there tomorrow."
"I'll be going there tomorrow."
"I am planning to go there tomorrow."
"I'm thinking about going there tomorrow."
"I'm going there today."

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Originally Posted by Spiderkat

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

You're right that "I'm going to go" is entirely correct in any dialect of English. I never care about formal language. If a native speaker says that 'this is correct' I consider it correct as well. ...

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You can't really think this way. You can't imagine how many people speak a non-grammatical English, even if they are native English people.
She's a teacher and probably spent years studying the correct English (grammar, spelling, etymology) and not the one that everybody speaks.
For example, you can hear a lot of people say "it don't matter" or "what you said?" which are okay but only as an everyday English, and some people won't even notice the mistake. But both are grammatically incorrect.

I think this problem is the same everywhere whatever the language.

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What you said? Is cleary wrong, and sound wrong to most educated people. However, "I'm going to school tmorrow" sounds fine to almost everybody. I think you will find that in modern revised English grammars this phrase is fine. It is only in old books that this will be described as wrong.

I suppose the same can be said for the Russian phrase "Завтра я иду в кино".

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Originally Posted by JB

"I will be going there tomorrow."
"I'll be going there tomorrow."
"I am planning to go there tomorrow."
"I'm thinking about going there tomorrow."
"I'm going there today."

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Eh? Nobody questioned phrases like that iirc.
It's really simple. There are phrases that are used only locally, or otherwise looked down upon by a lot of people. The one that started this thread is probably one. I myself use words like "sjudoj"/"tudoj" at times, but when around people whom I would not like to come across to as uneducated I may try to avoid them. In such cases, a non-native speaker might want to avoid them too.

And there are expressions like "I'm going there tomorrow" or "since two months ago" or "u nego netu doma" or probably lots more that I can't think about right now, which are fine with just about anyone except for a few select pundits. And these are fine for anyone imo, native speaker or not.

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Originally Posted by TATY

What you said? Is cleary wrong, and sound wrong to most educated people. However, "I'm going to school tmorrow" sounds fine to almost everybody. I think you will find that in modern revised English grammars this phrase is fine. It is only in old books that this will be described as wrong.

I suppose the same can be said for the Russian phrase "Завтра я иду в кино".

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I agree with you and you don't need to be educated to know that it's cleary wrong. A proper education is not given to everybody and some people don't even know the basis of English grammar, or went through so quickly that they don't remember part of it.

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You can't really think this way. You can't imagine how many people speak a non-grammatical English, even if they are native English people.
She's a teacher and probably spent years studying the correct English (grammar, spelling, etymology) and not the one that everybody speaks.
For example, you can hear a lot of people say "it don't matter" or "what you said?" which are okay but only as an everyday English, and some people won't even notice the mistake. But both are grammatically incorrect.

I think this problem is the same everywhere whatever the language.

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You're right that I can't imagine how many people speak non-grammatical English even if they are native English speakers. This is because I have never met such people. Hope I won't ever meet them.

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What you said? Is cleary wrong, and sound wrong to most educated people. However, "I'm going to school tmorrow" sounds fine to almost everybody. I think you will find that in modern revised English grammars this phrase is fine. It is only in old books that this will be described as wrong.

I suppose the same can be said for the Russian phrase "Завтра я иду в кино".

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Sounds good to me.
You have always got to keep up with "modern revised English grammars". I don't think English changes so quickly you constantly have to worry about whether something new was accepted
the other day. I mean that grammars change fairly quickly if we see them as part of language.

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

You're right that I can't imagine how many people speak non-grammatical English even if they are native English speakers. This is because I have never met such people. Hope I won't ever meet them.

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Unfortunately you can't tell what's gonna be at first sight when you meet them but only when they start to speak.

I fully agree with you here.

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

You're right that "I'm going to go" is entirely correct in any dialect of English. I never care about formal language. If a native speaker says that 'this is correct' I consider it correct as well.

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You would if you cared about your social status. Not everything you can say to your friends or write online and be understood works well in an application or at an interview for a job. Let's not make a little cult out of "native speakers", there are many ignorant idiots among them too. I would not trust teaching let's say Russian to just any bum off the street of Moscow.

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Let's not make a little cult out of "native speakers", there are many ignorant idiots among them too.

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That's right. I just don't talk to such people. Usually when I come to an English-speaking country I try to find people who I've got something to share with. Then communication becomes much more exciting!

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You would if you cared about your social status.

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I'm middle class, I suppose, so I don't care much about my social status. I am positive that even an impeccably educated person would not get upset or something if he heard "I'm going there tomorrow". What do you think?

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I am positive that even an impeccably educated person would not get upset or something if he heard "I'm going there tomorrow". What do you think?

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He could but then it's a medical condition.

Then he's a genius who needs to see a doctor. It's well known that genius's behavior's sometimes significantly resembles that of a psycho.

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I'm middle class, I suppose, so I don't care much about my social status. I am positive that even an impeccably educated person would not get upset or something if he heard "I'm going there tomorrow". What do you think?

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There's nothing wrong saying "I'm going there tomorrow" since it's grammatically correct to use the present continous for a future event.

I know. We have already figured it out :wink:

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Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I know. We have already figured it out :wink:

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I know but since you wrote "what do you think", I just thought you had a 1% doubt. :)

And you were absolutely right when you thought I had a 1% doubt. Honestly, I had a 5% doubt :wink: