Thread: Confusing use of prefixes Носить/Приносить

несу.jpg

So Носить and Нести are the abstract and concrete parts of the imperfective verb; carry?

In the example their are 4 cases where something could be described as being brought which I believe is why the При- prefix is used. Which is why the final one confuses me by not using it, it seems it's making a point I just can't see it.

Cheers

This is what I am gathering from this example. As you said you are dealing with the two imperfective verbs meaning 'to carry.' The difference:

Носить - to carry (multi-directional, or multiple times)
Нести - to carry (unidirectional, one time)

The last example: "Я несу тебе кофе." - Means "I am brining you coffee." It is is implying she is going directly to him, and the action is occuring one time at the moment.
The other examples with prefixed "при" can be interpreted as multiple times. "Она приносит ему полотенца." She brings him towels, which could be interpretted as many times.

That is my understanding of it. It also doesn't hurt to know which verbs of motion belong to "group 1" or "group 2", because when prefixation occurs, generally, group 2 verbs remain imperfective, and group 1 verbs become perfective.

Приносить - to carry (Imperfective)
Принести - to carry (perfective)

The examples on the pictures are not the most natural laguage out there, and your confusion only means that you are starting to grasp the concept.
носить/нести are indeed the verbs to convey a general idea of carrying something. Нести is for one-way action, so it is normal to say "несёт" when someone BRINGS a thing somewhere or to someone (the act of carrying with "нести" has one destination, right?).

При- used with verbs of motion adds the meaning of "approaching", so приносить/принести is a more specific way to say "bring". However, it does look strange in "Собака приносит мужчине газету". All these sentences would be OK if they were used for habitual actions ("She brings him towels (every morning)", "Children bring their parents breakfast (sometimes)"). It doesn't look as a likely scenario in the case with the dog, that's why I percieve the sentence as slightly wierd.

You see, "приносить" is formed from general "носить". Even prefixed, it retains the meaning of "movement in several directions, or repeated action" or "motion in general". It doesn't express the idea of bringing something "now" and "to a certain place" (you have "нести" and "принести" for that purpose). It even took me.. long to understand what's wrong, but - yep, sounds strange for that very reason.

Oh yes I understand the 3 aspects with verbs of motion

Multi-directional (indirect) / One-directional (direct) / Perfective, and that when prefixing them the direct verb becomes the perfective version. Side note: does this also mean when using prefixes there is no longer a distinction between direct and indirect as there is now only imperfective and perfective?

I just don't understand how it hints at the amount of times this action was done using these examples, seems pretty vague. Maybe I am not quite understanding. Unless the woman is trying to say... let's not make a habit, this is a one off treat, you deadbeat?

For example if someone uses the imperfective aspect which hints at repetition (without hint words like каждый день to imply repetition) does a Russian actually hear this as and think, "this must be a habit" or is it more for conventional purposes?

Originally Posted by ShakeyX

Maybe I am not quite understanding. Unless the woman is trying to say... let's not make a habit, this is a one off treat, you deadbeat?

I see it this way:
1. "Я принесла тебе кофе" - I('ve) brought you coffee - mission accomplished. Phew
2. "Я приношу тебе кофе" - I bring you coffee - sounds a little awkward in this context, as it's begs for elaboration ("Я приношу тебе кофе.. каждый день", "Я приношу тебе кофе... а ты даже не смотришь на меня", etc.)
3. "Я несу тебе кофе" - I'm bringing you coffee - I'm in the process of carrying it. Get ready!

Я вот так это понимаю
Собака приносит мужчине газету. То есть, она донесёт газету именно до мужчины, где бы он ни находился.
Собака носит мужчине газету. Она может донести газету к определённому месту и там может не быть мужчины. Он может забрать газету позже.

Я несу тебе кофе. Не факт что она принесёт кофе именно к нему, а в неопределённое место, где он сможет его взять.
Я принесу тебе кофе. Это заявка на то что она доставит кофе именно ему в руки.

I quickly googled the subject and found that, actually, in common Slavic period all verbs had distinction between "concrete" and "indefinite" verbs (each action had two similar verbs, one for "general" action, and one for specific one-time action). Then, it transformed into perfective/imperfective "pairs" of similar verbs. That is, for most of them. Yet for verbs of motion there's still a distinction left between action in general and/or repeated and/orin several directions, and action as a specific act of movement to a certain destination once.

1. What we have with unprefixed verbs: a pair like ходить/ идти, носить/нести, плавать/плыть. An indefinite verb and a concrete verb.
2. With a prefix: I tried some verbs... It seems that only "по-" makes a perfective regardless of the verb. Like походить, пойти, поносить, понести, поплавать, поплыть. Note, that for concrete verbs you get the meaning "started doing action", but for indefinite the meaning is "to do it for some time and then stop".
For any other prefix yo just get an aspectual pair: indefinite verb (ходить, носить, плавать) remains imperfective, while concrete one-directional verb (идти, носить, плыть) becomes perfective. So, you have imperfective/perfective pairs like приплывать/приплыть, приносить/принести, уходить/уйти, подносить/поднести, забегАть/забежать ("забЕгать" has different meaning - "to suddenly start running around"). Maybe, my despise for sentences such as "Она приносить ему полотенца" comes not from grammar, but purely from the fact it's rarely used this way. "Она подносит полотенца" seems fine. "Уважаемые пассажиры, поезд прибывает на конечную станцию X" too ("Dear passengers, out train is arriving to terminal station X "), though, "прибывать" isn't a verb of motion, so that doesn't count

In other words, I don't care what's written in Rosetta Stone - but in real speach "Я несу/ Ты несёшь/ Она несёт/..." is a completely normal way to express being in a state of er... transporting some object.

As for the hints... let's face it, all the examples are rather artificial. "Я несу тебе кофе" is the most natural, roughly translating to "I'm serving you coffee/ I'm bringing you coffee". I mean, right now. Might be (theoretically) an answer to a question "What are you doing?" Anyway, in real life situations people tend to say enough to be understood. This "number of times" and directions only describe general guidelines as to which verb you should use to express a certain idea the way Russians do it in their laguage. Which idea to express - that's up to the speaker. But yeah, "несу кофе" is mostly for "right now" and "приношу кофе" usually describes a repeated activity. If the verb isn't a verb of motion - say, like "Я рисую" - "I'm drawing" -, it may be ambiguos. However, if you were to hear this as an answer to "What are you doing in arts school?" - it'll be pretty clear that the action is habitual rather than one-time.

Я рисую. Рисую вообще где-нибуть.
Я пририсую. Рисую (дорисовываю) в определённом месте.

Sibiriak, "пририсую" и "принесу" это будущее время. Глаголы "пририсовать" и "принести" совершенного вида, а значит их личные формы образуют простое будущее время.

"пририсую" and "принесу" are in the future. The verbs "пририсовать" and "принести" are perfective, so naturally they form a simple Future tense when run through declension.

Originally Posted by Shady_arc

Sibiriak, "пририсую" и "принесу" это будущее время. Глаголы "пририсовать" и "принести" совершенного вида, а значит их личные формы образуют простое будущее время.

"пририсую" and "принесу" are in the future. The verbs "пририсовать" and "принести" are perfective, so naturally they form a simple Future tense when run through declension.

Совершенно верно. И это не противоречит тому что я написал выше.

You cannot use "несу" with the part of the process when you are not physically carrying the thing.

When the medic gives him the towel and when the children are giving the breakfast, they have already completed carrying and now are giving the thing.

"приношу" means the whole process: taking, carrying and giving. "несу" means only the carrying.