Complex Verbal Forms

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June 30th, 2005, 04:34 AM
saibot

Complex Verbal Forms

Would someone be kind enough to translate these sentences into Russian, so I can better understand how complex verbal forms work? I'm just gonna start with the very simple, so some of these might be dumb (like how could he not know that?!?!?), but I just wanna make sure everything is right. Thanks! :D

I am catching the fish.

I was catching the fish.

I will be catching the fish.

I have caught the fish.

I had caught the fish.

I will have caught the fish.

I am going to catch the fish.

I was going to catch the fish.

I will be going to catch the fish.

I would be catching the fish, if....

I would have caught the fish, if....

I would be going to catch the fish, if....

The fish is caught.

The fish was caught.

The fish will be caught.

The fish is being caught.

The fish was being caught.

The fish will be being caught.

The fish has been caught.

The fish had been caught, when....

The fish will have been caught.

The fish is going to be caught.

The fish was going to be caught.

The fish will be going to be caught.

:o :wink:
June 30th, 2005, 05:03 AM
tdcinprc

Can't really help on Russian translation, but I think these are kinda strange in English:

I will be going to catch the fish.
I would be going to catch the fish, if....
The fish will be going to be caught.
The fish will be being caught.

Unless you mean going as in to someplace as in:
I will be going there to catch the fish
I would be going there to catch the fish
The fish will be going there to be caught.

and the "will be being caught" thing just seemed kinda strange...so I found this:
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/fut ... nuous.html
(look at the bottom)

apparently, it's not very common.
June 30th, 2005, 05:19 AM
saibot

Yeah..some of those sounded strange to me too. It's just that I had list of a bunch of english expressions like that and they were on there...i just wanted to see how stuff like that translated into russian
June 30th, 2005, 05:32 AM
Pioner

Re: Complex Verbal Forms

Russian does not have the same complecated tense structure, so we have to add some обстоятельство времени for underlining the meaning which you can omit quite often, depending on contex it will be understandable, anyhow I will add them in brackets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saibot

Would someone be kind enough to translate these sentences into Russian, so I can better understand how complex verbal forms work? I'm just gonna start with the very simple, so some of these might be dumb (like how could he not know that?!?!?), but I just wanna make sure everything is right. Thanks! :D

I am catching the fish. = Я (сейчас) ловлю рыбу

I was catching the fish. = Я (в это время) ловил рыбу

I will be catching the fish. = Я (в это время) буду ловить рыбу

I have caught the fish. = Я поймал рыбу

I had caught the fish. = В этот момент я как раз поймал рыбу

I will have caught the fish. = К тому моменту я поймаю рыбу

I am going to catch the fish. = Я буду ловить рыбу / Я поймаю рыбу

I was going to catch the fish. = Я собирался ловить рыбу

I will be going to catch the fish. = Я буду ловить рыбу (future in the future does not exist in Russian :) )

I would be catching the fish, if.... = я бы ловил рыбу, если...

I would have caught the fish, if.... = я бы поймал рыбу, если...

I would be going to catch the fish, if.... = я бы пошел ловить рыбу, если...

The fish is caught. = рыба поймана

The fish was caught. = рыба была поймана

The fish will be caught. = рыбу поймают / рыба будет поймана (rarely used)

The fish is being caught. = ммм... рыбу прямо сейчас ловят

The fish was being caught. = в этот момент рыбу ловили

The fish will be being caught. = в тот момент рыбу будут ловить

The fish has been caught. = рыбу поймали

The fish had been caught, when.... = рыбу поймали, когда... (только рыбу поймали, и в этот момент...)

The fish will have been caught. = к этому моменту как раз поймают рыбу

The fish is going to be caught. = рыбу поймают

The fish was going to be caught. = рыбу бы поймали (depends on context can be different phrase, nothing comes to my mind right now)

The fish will be going to be caught. = рыбу поймают (future in the future)

:o :wink:

"ну, барин Вы задачки задаете". :)

ловить рыбу можно в некоторых случаях легк заменить глаголом "рыбачить".

многие из приведенных фраз is total nonsense in Russian, but grammatically I did my best.
June 30th, 2005, 05:33 AM
pranki

Re: Complex Verbal Forms

I can be wrong because my English isn't so good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saibot

I am catching the fish.

Я ловлю рыбу.

Quote:

I was catching the fish.

Я ловил рыбу.

Quote:

I will be catching the fish.

Я буду ловить рыбу

Quote:

I have caught the fish.

Я поймал рыбу.

Quote:

I had caught the fish.

Я поймал рыбу

Quote:

I will have caught the fish.

Я поймаю рыбу

Quote:

I am going to catch the fish.

Я собираюсь ловить рыбу

Quote:

I was going to catch the fish.

Я собирался ловить рыбу

Quote:

I will be going to catch the fish.

Я буду собираться (or собирусь) ловить рыбу (very strange for me)

Quote:

I would be catching the fish, if....

Я бы ловил рыбу, если...

Quote:

I would have caught the fish, if....

Я бы поймал рыбу, если...

Quote:

I would be going to catch the fish, if....

Я бы собирался ловить рыбу, если...

Quote:

The fish is caught.

???

Quote:

The fish was caught.

Рыба поймана (Рыбу поймали)

Quote:

The fish will be caught.

Рыбу поймают (Рыба будет поймана)

Дальше нет времени писать, да и предложения дальше какие-то странные идут :wink:
June 30th, 2005, 05:36 AM
saibot

спасибо большое!

You guys are such a great help! Unlike some people. *cough* kalinka_vinnie *cough*
June 30th, 2005, 05:54 AM
Pioner

why you guys do not like each other?

and BTW, he is not Russian. :)
June 30th, 2005, 05:58 AM
saibot

lol..no he's cool. I just like to pick on him....it makes me feel powerful. 8)
June 30th, 2005, 06:02 AM
Pioner

wow, powerfull Cheburashka. Should be a very special creature.
June 30th, 2005, 06:03 AM
saibot

whooooo!

могущественный чебурашка! :D

Like the way that sounds. 8)
June 30th, 2005, 07:59 AM
Doldonius

Re: Complex Verbal Forms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

I had caught the fish. = В этот момент я как раз поймал рыбу

Не "как раз", а "уже" поймал. That was an accomplished fact at the moment in the past one's speaking about, but we don't know for how exactly long it had been done. Might had been years, so "как раз" doesn't quite fit.

Quote:

I am going to catch the fish. = Я буду ловить рыбу / Я поймаю рыбу

Pranki's variant sounds more exact to me. "Я собираюсь ловить рыбу", etc.

Quote:

The fish is caught. = рыба поймана

Hmm. Rather, "рыба ловится". But you won't always find a good Passive Voice equivalent. Usually, native speakers prefer impersonal sentences such as "Рыбу ловят" instead.

Quote:

The fish was going to be caught. = рыбу бы поймали (depends on context can be different phrase, nothing comes to my mind right now)

"Рыбу уже почти поймали", maybe. Nevertheless, it's really hard indeed to make up a sensible Russian phrase with a similar meaning.
June 30th, 2005, 09:42 AM
Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by saibot

whooooo!

могущественный чебурашка! :D

Like the way that sounds. 8)

Or чебурешка! :D (small чебурек) :D
June 30th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".
June 30th, 2005, 05:00 PM
Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

that is a simple case

I catch fish = я ловлю рыбу регулярно (каждую субботу скажем), но сейчас я сижу на диване и пью пиво
I am catching fish = прямо сейчас я сижу и ловлю рыбу, заткнись идиот, ты мне весь улов распугаешь!

Nope.
I fish = я ловлю рыбу регулярно (каждую субботу скажем), но сейчас я сижу на диване и пью пиво
I am fishing = прямо сейчас я сижу и ловлю рыбу, заткнись идиот, ты мне весь улов распугаешь.
June 30th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.
June 30th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.
June 30th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.
June 30th, 2005, 05:25 PM
Pioner

Re: Complex Verbal Forms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doldonius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

I had caught the fish. = В этот момент я как раз поймал рыбу

Не "как раз", а "уже" поймал. That was an accomplished fact at the moment in the past one's speaking about, but we don't know for how exactly long it had been done. Might had been years, so "как раз" doesn't quite fit.

nope, by total grammatical rules you are probably right, but in general such form is not used, there is relation to the moment. Would be nice to hear native speakers.

Quote:

[quote:p16y4tp3]I am going to catch the fish. = Я буду ловить рыбу / Я поймаю рыбу

Pranki's variant sounds more exact to me. "Я собираюсь ловить рыбу", etc.[/quote:p16y4tp3]
No. Imagine there is a big legendary fish in the lake, nobody can catch it. And one guy says: I am going to catch the bastard (fish).

Quote:

[quote:p16y4tp3]The fish is caught. = рыба поймана

Hmm. Rather, "рыба ловится". But you won't always find a good Passive Voice equivalent. Usually, native speakers prefer impersonal sentences such as "Рыбу ловят" instead.[/quote:p16y4tp3]
Your variant is fine as well, depending on context.

Quote:

[quote:p16y4tp3]The fish was going to be caught. = рыбу бы поймали (depends on context can be different phrase, nothing comes to my mind right now)

"Рыбу уже почти поймали", maybe. Nevertheless, it's really hard indeed to make up a sensible Russian phrase with a similar meaning.[/quote:p16y4tp3]
No, translate backwards, and you will get: The fish was almost caught.
June 30th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.

Nope. "To fish" = "Рыбачить". "To catch a fish" = "Поймать рыбу". "Поймать рыбу" != "Ловить рыбу".
June 30th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Rtyom

:arrow: More context needed.
June 30th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Milanya1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.

I fish - Я ловлю рыбу (Я рыбачу) (регулярно)
I catch a fish -Я ловлю одну рыбку. (регулярно)(does not make much sense)
I catch the fish -Я ловлю эту рыбку.(регулярно) {Зачем ловить одну и ту же рыбу несколько раз? }
June 30th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.

Nope. "To fish" = "Рыбачить". "To catch a fish" = "Поймать рыбу". "Поймать рыбу" != "Ловить рыбу".

Ты прав, но в целом, "рыбачить" является подмножеством "ловить рыбу". :) Ну или почти подмножеством. :)

Но в английском языке "Поймать рыбу" = "Ловить рыбу". Типа "The fish is caught". Зависит от обстоятельств, для перевода.
June 30th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milanya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.

I fish - Я ловлю рыбу (Я рыбачу) (регулярно)
I catch a fish -Я ловлю одну рыбку. (регулярно)(does not make much sense)
I catch the fish -Я ловлю эту рыбку.(регулярно) {Зачем ловить одну и ту же рыбу несколько раз? }

fish = is plural. There is no "a fish". But some uneducated English-speakers do the same mistake.

Последнее выражение вполне нормально. Я ловлю эту рыбу уже всю свою жизнь, никак поймать не могу.
June 30th, 2005, 05:44 PM
kwatts59

[quote=Pioner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milanya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Vesh":221dvwrd

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.

I fish - Я ловлю рыбу (Я рыбачу) (регулярно)
I catch a fish -Я ловлю одну рыбку. (регулярно)(does not make much sense)
I catch the fish -Я ловлю эту рыбку.(регулярно) {Зачем ловить одну и ту же рыбу несколько раз? }

fish = is plural. There is no "a fish". But some uneducated English-speakers do the same mistake.

Последнее выражение вполне нормально. Я ловлю эту рыбу уже всю свою жизнь, никак поймать не могу.[/quote:221dvwrd]

IMHO, The plural of fish is either "fish" or "fishes". The following sentences have the same meaning.
There are fishes in the pond.
There are fish in the pond.

"to catch a fish" is the not the same as "to fish"
"I caught a fish" is NOT the same as "I fished"
June 30th, 2005, 05:49 PM
kwatts59

[quote=kwatts59][quote=Pioner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milanya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesh

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Rtyom":25ml0w22

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Vesh":25ml0w22

Am I wrong? Or am I wrong?

To catch a fish != To fish.

So, "I'm catching a fish", is not "Я ловлю рыбу." It's, "Я наxожусь в процессе поимки рыбы." Or, to make it sound Russian, "Я вываживаю рыбу".

Это уже расшифровка смысла. "Я ловлю рыбу" приемлимо.

Мне кажется, что неприемлемо. "Ловить рыбу" = "Рыбачить" = "To fish" != "To catch a fish" Могу, конечно, ошибаться.

мне кажется - это одно и тоже.

I fish - Я ловлю рыбу (Я рыбачу) (регулярно)
I catch a fish -Я ловлю одну рыбку. (регулярно)(does not make much sense)
I catch the fish -Я ловлю эту рыбку.(регулярно) {Зачем ловить одну и ту же рыбу несколько раз? }

fish = is plural. There is no "a fish". But some uneducated English-speakers do the same mistake.

Последнее выражение вполне нормально. Я ловлю эту рыбу уже всю свою жизнь, никак поймать не могу.[/quote:25ml0w22]

IMHO, The plural of fish is either "fish" or "fishes". The following sentences have the same meaning.
There are fishes in the pond.
There are fish in the pond.

"to catch a fish" is the not the same as "to fish"
"I caught a fish" is NOT the same as "I fished"[/quote:25ml0w22]

Is there a limit on how many times we can quote each other?
June 30th, 2005, 05:51 PM
scotcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

fish = is plural. There is no "a fish". But some uneducated English-speakers do the same mistake.

That is simply incorrect. "Fish" can be either singular or plural. There is nothing wrong with "a fish" (so to speak). There is, however, a further plural; "fishes", which refers to more than one species of fish, in the same way that "people" and "peoples" are both plurals with different meanings. It's the plural that English speakers often have trouble with.

Incidentally, you don't "do" a mistake in English, you "make" one. Same word in Russian, different in English.
June 30th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

fish = is plural. There is no "a fish". But some uneducated English-speakers do the same mistake.

That is simply incorrect. "Fish" can be either singular or plural. There is nothing wrong with "a fish" (so to speak). There is, however, a further plural; "fishes", which refers to more than one species of fish, in the same way that "people" and "peoples" are both plurals with different meanings. It's the plural that English speakers often have trouble with.

Incidentally, you don't "do" a mistake in English, you "make" one. Same word in Russian, different in English.

Great! Now I got it, I was always confused. Thanks for corrections!
June 30th, 2005, 06:13 PM
scotcher

Yer welcome.
July 1st, 2005, 05:05 AM
Doldonius

Re: Complex Verbal Forms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doldonius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioner

I had caught the fish. = В этот момент я как раз поймал рыбу

Не "как раз", а "уже" поймал. That was an accomplished fact at the moment in the past one's speaking about, but we don't know for how exactly long it had been done. Might had been years, so "как раз" doesn't quite fit.

nope, by total grammatical rules you are probably right, but in general such form is not used, there is relation to the moment. Would be nice to hear native speakers.

Yep. Ladies and gentlemen, does Past Perfect imply that an action was completed immediately before a moment in the past?

Quote:

[quote:p4zb0v9u]Pranki's variant sounds more exact to me. "Я собираюсь ловить рыбу", etc.

No. Imagine there is a big legendary fish in the lake, nobody can catch it. And one guy says: I am going to catch the bastard (fish).[/quote:p4zb0v9u]

Once again, it's context, context, context. Since there's no simple one to one correspondence between English and Russian tenses, context is vital here.

Quote:

[quote:p4zb0v9u][quote:p4zb0v9u]The fish was going to be caught. = рыбу бы поймали (depends on context can be different phrase, nothing comes to my mind right now)

"Рыбу уже почти поймали", maybe.[/quote:p4zb0v9u]
No, translate backwards, and you will get: The fish was almost caught.[/quote:p4zb0v9u]

Yours would translate back into, "The fish would have been caught". There's just no relevant grammatical pattern in Russian I think.

Besides, back translation is not a way to test validity of a translation. It just doesn't work like maths. Any time you try to cram a text into grammatical and lexical structure of a different language, some shades of meaning are lost, some added, some distorted. Remember "The invisible idiot"? :)