Chapter 22 questions

I have a couple questions on the dialogue that begins the chapter. There is a hotel guest who has lost his wallet and he goes to the cleaning lady and asks if anyone has turned it in. She asks if he has checked with the woman in charge of the floor. He responds, Да, мы с ней вместе всюду искали. It seems the action of "searching" is past and finished, not repeated. Why is it in the imperfective aspect?

In another section, the cleaning lady is advising the guest to avoid meeting certain suspicious people in the city. She says ...вам всё равно лучше избегать встреч с такими людьми. I would expect an infinitive after избегать. What is встреч in this sentence?

Thank you,
Z

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There is a hotel guest who has lost his wallet and he goes to the cleaning lady and asks if anyone has turned it in. She asks if he has checked with the woman in charge of the floor. He responds, Да, мы с ней вместе всюду искали. It seems the action of "searching" is past and finished, not repeated. Why is it in the imperfective aspect?

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They spent some time serching for the wallet and didn't find it.

Russian Verb Aspects - Russian Grammar

8. If there is no result of the action, or it wasn’t successfully completed then use the imperfective aspect.

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In another section, the cleaning lady is advising the guest to avoid meeting certain suspicious people in the city. She says ...вам всё равно лучше избегать встреч с такими людьми. I would expect an infinitive after избегать. What is встреч in this sentence?

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It is a noun (feminine, plural, genetive).

Hoax, ...) there's nothing to add to her post!.

Thanks Hoax,

There's another exercise where I need to choose the imperfective or perfective aspect. This type of exercise is in each chapter and I'm still not sure about which is which. What about this one?
Даже если они долго (search for), они Вадима не найдут. Is it поищут, the perfective?

Z

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Originally Posted by zorro

There's another exercise where I need to choose the imperfective or perfective aspect. This type of exercise is in each chapter and I'm still not sure about which is which. What about this one?
Даже если они долго (search for), они Вадима не найдут. Is it поищут, the perfective?

Z

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It should be the imperfective form: "даже если они долго БУДУТ ИСКАТЬ, Вадима они не найдут".

Why "БУДУТ ИСКАТЬ"?
(1) The process of searching for Vadim will be ONGOING and, probably REPEATED:
they will look here and there and everywhere;
(2) They will fail to find him, the main sentence implies that the process of search will be unsuccessful.

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Originally Posted by zorro

I have a couple questions on the dialogue that begins the chapter...
I would expect an infinitive after избегать. What is встреч in this sentence?

Thank you,
Z

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It is because in English you can use the infinitive after "to avoid".

However, in Russian, the verb "избегать" can be followed:

(1) either by the Genitive of nouns or pronouns, e.g.:
- Почему ты избегаешь меня ? (меня = Genitive of "я") ,
- Он избегает своих родных и друзей (родных/друзей = Genitive of plural "родные/друзья"),
- Преступник. Избежит наказания (наказание = Genitive of "наказание").

Hence, in your example: "Вам лучше избегать встреч с такими людьми" (встреч = Genitive of plural "встречи").

(2) or by the infinitive:

- Он избегал смотреть мне в глаза,
- Почему ты избегаешь отвечать на мои вопросы?

Sorry, it should be "преступник НЕ избегнет наказания."

Thanks, Yulia for your detailed explanation. That helps.

Here are some more I'm not sure about from the same exercise:
--Можно (ask) ещё несколько вопросы?
--Пожалуйста, я люблю, когда студенты (ask) умные вопросы.
Is it perfective for the first and imperfective for the second? задать/задают?

Another:
--Почему здесь ещё не (they have cleaned up)?
--Одну минуточку. Я сейчас (will clean up). Горничная, которая обычно здесь (cleans up) сегодня больна.
Is it --убирали
--уберу/убирает?

One more:
--Кто (will be cleaning up) на этом этаже?
--Фёкла. Когда она кончит (cleaning) на четвёртом этаже, она придёт сюда к нам.
Is it будет убирать/убрать?

Thanks,
Z

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Originally Posted by zorro

Thanks, Yulia for your detailed explanation. That helps.

Here are some more I'm not sure about from the same exercise:
--Можно (ask) ещё несколько вопросы?
--Пожалуйста, я люблю, когда студенты (ask) умные вопросы.
Is it perfective for the first and imperfective for the second? задать/задают?
Thanks,
Z

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You are always welcome. Всегда пожалуйста!

You are quite right!

- Можно ЗАДАТЬ (perfective) еще несколько вопросОВ?

( the student here intends to ask his questions at one time, e.g. during the lecture he is attending, not over a period of time.
Therefore, his asking questions is viewed as a singe action that will be completed upon the professor's permission.)

- Пожалуйста, я люблю, когда студенты ЗАДАЮТ (imperfective) умные вопросы.

(Here the professor refers not to a single, specific one-time action, but rather to his habit of gladly answering the clever questions every time they are asked... Besides, characteristic, habitual and repetitive actions are expressed by the verb in its present tense-form, and present in Russian is imperfective only.)

Good job :-)

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Originally Posted by zorro

Another:
--Почему здесь ещё не (they have cleaned up)?
--Одну минуточку. Я сейчас (will clean up). Горничная, которая обычно здесь (cleans up) сегодня больна.
Is it --убирали
--уберу/убирает?

Thanks,
Z

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Precisely so!

- Почему здесь ЕЩЕ НЕ УБИРАЛИ ? (Imperfective)
(Imperfective in negative sentences communicates that the action had not yet happened.
Here the Imperfective may also mean that nothing had been done yet to clean the area/room...
Perfective " еще не убрали?" is also appropriate, as it points to the fact that someone failed to do the action, or that the process of cleaning had not yet been finished).

- Минуточку, я сейчас УБЕРУ ( Perfective).
( Here the focus is on the one-time completed action, not on the process of cleaning, or on the habit/repetitiveness of cleaning).

- Горничная, которая ОБЫЧНО здесь УБИРАЕТ (imperfective), больна.
( here there are several hints to choose the imperfective: it is a habitual action for thr maid, she repetitively and regularly cleans this area/room. Besides, the verb is in the present, which is only in Imperfective in Russian).

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Originally Posted by zorro

One more:
--Кто (will be cleaning up) на этом этаже?
--Фёкла. Когда она кончит (cleaning) на четвёртом этаже, она придёт сюда к нам.
Is it будет убирать/убрать?

Thanks,
Z

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In both cases Imperfective should be used:

- Кто БУДЕТ УБИРАТЬ на этом этаже?
(you were right to pick up the Imperfective here, as the focus is not on the beginning or the completion/result of the action,
but on the doer of the action.)

-- Фекла. Когда она закончит (Perfective, to indicate the completion) УБИРАТЬ (Imperfective)...., она придет к нам.
( here the imperfective just names the PROCESS of cleaning, and the COMPLETION of this process is communicated by the verb " ЗАКОНЧИТ).

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Originally Posted by zorro

It seems the action of "searching" is past and finished, not repeated. Why is it in the imperfective aspect?
Z

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"finished" means "reached a logical limit" here. "Искать" does not have a pure perfective equivalent. The closest is найти but there is also a verb находить.

Marcus and Yulia--thanks for your help.

Imperfective and perfective still aren't coming easily. Here are some more questions.

--я не хочу брать твою книгу. Я боюсь, что я её (will lose).
--Ну что ты! Ты её не (will lose).
--Нет, я всегда всё (lose).
Is it потеряю, потеряешь, теряю?

--Когда мы (will find out), кто сдал контрольную?
--Это вы (will find out) завтра утром, в половине восьмого.
Аre both perfective? узнаем, узнаете?

Telling time is introduced in this chapter too. For 1:59 can you say either без одного два or без одной минуты два?

Verbs of motion are still a big problem for me. These are two examples I'm not sure about.

Если Наташа (comes on foot) в два часа, мы с ней пойдём гулять по улице Горького.
Is it придёт?

Когда (comes) мистер Картер, скажите ему, что его паспорт нашли.
Is it also придёт?

Thanks for any help,
Z

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--я не хочу брать твою книгу. Я боюсь, что я её (will lose).
--Ну что ты! Ты её не (will lose).
--Нет, я всегда всё (lose).
Is it потеряю, потеряешь, теряю?

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All is correct

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--Когда мы (will find out), кто сдал контрольную?
--Это вы (will find out) завтра утром, в половине восьмого.
Аre both perfective? узнаем, узнаете?

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All is correct as well.

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Telling time is introduced in this chapter too. For 1:59 can you say either без одного два or без одной минуты два?

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Минута is singular and femenine so it affects the number before it that has to be both singular and femenine. So:

you can't say "без одного два" because одного is the genetive version of один there and it refers to a singular masculine object, but you have to refer to минута. Thus the correct version shoud be: без одной два or без одной минуты два or без минуты два (since it's obvious that there is only one minute there :D)

So, the general rule, don't forget that you refer to минута when you're talking about the time like that. You just sometimes, well most of the time, omit the word минута there.

Examine:

2:45 - без пятнадцати (минут) три
4:50 - без десяти (минут) пять

or even:
1:01 - без пятидесяти девяти (минут) два :crazy: Just don't tell time like that it's just a mere example, people will think you're crazy if you speak like that. :crazy:

P.S:

No one ever says that it's без минуты два, they just say два часа (2 o'clock) because who cares about that minute?

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Если Наташа (comes on foot) в два часа, мы с ней пойдём гулять по улице Горького.
Is it придёт?

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You're right

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Когда (comes) мистер Картер, скажите ему, что его паспорт нашли.
Is it also придёт?

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You're right again

Good job you did! Take care.

I hope it will help in any way

You read a book? Which book is that?

iCake--A thousand thanks. That's a big help. I'll have a couple more questions later today when I have time to write.

impulse--I'm working my way through a grammar book, Russian by Ben T. Clark. It's an old book, from 1983, and 600 pages long, but it's very detailed. There are 27 chapters and it takes me about a month to get through each one. It has been a year and a half I've been at this; I hope by the end of the year I'll be through and have a good base to work from to do some conversation, writing, reading, etc.

Z

There is another section in this chapter about genitive of numbers. These are the answers to three exercises I'm not sure about. Are these correct?

У меня нет трёх рублей.
У меня нет четырёх рублей.
У меня нет двадцати шести рублей.

Is рублей used even after numbers 2, 3, and 4 in this case and not рубля?

Another grammar point covered is indefinite pronouns, adjectives, and adverbs. These are the general rules given for using -то and -нибуть: Use -то with past and present tenses (unless the action is repeated). Use -нибуть with questions, imperative, and future (unless the person or thing is known). Are these sentences correct?

Вы хотите, чтобы я купил что-нибуть для него?
Купите ему что-нибуть ко дню рождения.
Вы были кем-нубуть заняты?
Когда я буду в Одессе, я куплю вам что-нибуть; ещё не знаю что.
--Вы думаете, что вы это как-нибыть сделаете?
--Да, всё можно сделать как-то.
Чья-нибуть машина стоит перед вашим домом?
Вы нашли чьи-нибуть вещи?
--Вы видели чью-нибуть книгу в этой комнате?
--Да, чья-то книга лежит там, на столе.

Thanks for any help,
Z

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Originally Posted by zorro

There is another section in this chapter about genitive of numbers. These are the answers to three exercises I'm not sure about. Are these correct?

У меня нет трёх рублей.
У меня нет четырёх рублей.
У меня нет двадцати шести рублей.

Is рублей used even after numbers 2, 3, and 4 in this case and not рубля? Z

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Correct, Zorro!

After "у меня нет/ не было/ не будет" denoting the absence/lack of something, GENITIVE is required:

У МЕНЯ НЕТ + GENITIVE, e.g.

- У меня нет сестры / жены / работы / подруги / машины (Sing. Fem. in Genitive);

- У меня нет дома / мотоцикла / адвоката ( sing. masc. in Genitive);

- У нас не было времени / желания / вдохновения ( sing. neut. in Genitive);

- У меня нет ни единого рубля / двух рублей / трех рублей / четырех рублей / пяти рублей/ десяти рублей ( plural masc. in Genitive).

The rule about "два/три/четыре РУБЛЯ " and "пять/шесть/десять РУБЛЕЙ" works only if you use these combinations in the Noinative or in the Accusative, e.g.:

- Будь другом, дай мне два/три/четыре рубля/ (In Accusative);

- Дай мне пять/ шесть / семь / десять / тридцать / сто рублей ( in Accusative;

- У меня есть два /три / четыре / 22 / 32 / 44 / 104 рубля ( in Nominative);

- У меня есть пять / шесть / семь / 25 / 36 / 49 рублей ( in Nominative).

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Originally Posted by zorro

Another grammar point covered is indefinite pronouns, adjectives, and adverbs. These are the general rules given for using -то and -нибуДь: Use -то with past and present tenses (unless the action is repeated). Use -нибуДь with questions, imperative, and future (unless the person or thing is known). Are these sentences correct?.....Z

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Вы хотите, чтобы я купил что-нибуДь для него? (correct )
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Купите ему что-нибуДь ко дню рождения. (Correct)
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Вы были кем-нИбуДь заняты?

( this sentence sounds somewhat ambiguous. Could you write the corresponding English sentence?
Should it be rather " вы были ЧЕМ-нибудь заняты?"

Both cases are possible here, depending on the emphasis:

1) Вы БЫЛИ чем-нибудь заняты? - here the speaker is interested in getting the "yes" or "no" answer,
as in "Have you been busy with anything?"

2) Вы были чем-то ЗАНЯТЫ? - here the speaker is merely guessing if the other one was busy with smth,
Similar to " You have been busy with something, haven't you?"

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Когда я буду в Одессе, я куплю вам что-нибуДь; ещё не знаю что. (Correct)
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--Вы думаете, что вы это как-нибУДь сделаете?

(Correct, although it sounds ambiguous. Knowing the corresponding English sentence would be helpful.
I would rather say " Вы думаете, что КАКИМ-ТО ОБРАЗОМ это сделаете?"

"Сделать КАК-НИБУДЬ " may also imply either 1) a careless way of doing something (anyhow),
or 2) in some indefinite future (some day).

--Да, всё можно сделать как-то.
( "все можно как-нибудь сделать" is also possible, depending on what the speaker has in mind:

1) if he means, "all can be done in some way/there is a way to do it all", then he'll ask, "все можно КАК-ТО сделать";

2) if he ironically means, "all can be done any way/ in who cares what way", then he'll ask, "все можно КАК-НИБУДЬ сделать".
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Чья-нибуДь машина стоит перед вашим домом?
(Grammatically correct, although it sounds less than authentic, we would use a different word order,
"Перед Вашим домом стоит чья-нибудь машина?"
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Вы нашли чьи-нибуДь вещи?
(Correct, but "какие-нибудь вещи" sounds more authentic and natural. It depends on what the speaker has on mind:

1) If the speaker wants to find out if Anyone's things HAVE BEEN FOUND, then he may ask, "Вы ЧЬИ-НИБУДЬ вещи нашли?"

2) If the speaker makes a guess that SOMEONE's THINGS have been found, then he may ask, " Вы нашли ЧЬИ-ТО вещи?",
similar to " you've found someone's things, haven't you?"

--Вы видели чью-нибуДь книгу в этой комнате? (correct)

--Да, чья-то книга лежит там, на столе. (Correct)

Your Russian skills are AMAZING! And so is your resolve to master those 600+ pages! Blessings to you as you press on to master Russian!

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Originally Posted by Yulia65

Blessings to you as you press on to master Russian!

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You're very kind. Blessings to you for your help.

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Originally Posted by Yulia65

Вы были кем-нИбуДь заняты?

( this sentence sounds somewhat ambiguous. Could you write the corresponding English sentence?
Should it be rather " вы были ЧЕМ-нибудь заняты?"

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Yes this is my mistake. It should have been вы были ЧЕМ-нибудь заняты?.

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Originally Posted by Yulia65

Вы думаете, что вы это как-нибУДь сделаете?

(Correct, although it sounds ambiguous. Knowing the corresponding English sentence would be helpful

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In these exercises there are no English translations. I understood this as meaning, "Do you think you'll somehow get this done?", maybe with sarcasm.

Z

The last section in this chapter is translations. These are some I'm not sure about.

We searched for our friends all morning but couldn't find them.
Мы искали наших друзей всё утро, но не могли их найти.

What time will our bus arrive?
I think at eight-twenty.
No, it will come at quarter to nine.
When it comes, we will tell you.
В котором часу приехет наш автобус?
Я думаю, в двадцать девятого.
Нет, он приехет без четверти девять.
Когда он приехет, мы вам скажим.

I'm going to Moscow tomorrow. I'll buy something there for my parents.
Я иду в Москву завтра. Я покуплю что-нибудь там для родителей.

Someone told me that you lost your passport.
Yes, I did. I hope someone finds it.
Кто-то мне сказал, что вы потеряли свой паспорт.
Да, потерял. Я надеюсь, что кто-нибудь его найдёт.

Thanks for any corrections,
Z

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Originally Posted by zorro

The last section in this chapter is translations. These are some I'm not sure about.

We searched for our friends all morning but couldn't find them.
Мы искали наших друзей всё утро, но не могли их найти.

What time will our bus arrive?
I think at eight-twenty.
No, it will come at quarter to nine.
When it comes, we will tell you.
В котором часу приехет наш автобус?
Я думаю, в двадцать девятого.
Нет, он приехет без четверти девять.
Когда он приехет, мы вам скажим.

I'm going to Moscow tomorrow. I'll buy something there for my parents.
Я иду в Москву завтра. Я покуплю что-нибудь там для родителей.

Someone told me that you lost your passport.
Yes, I did. I hope someone finds it.
Кто-то мне сказал, что вы потеряли свой паспорт.
Да, потерял. Я надеюсь, что кто-нибудь его найдёт.

Thanks for any corrections,
Z

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во сколько придет наш автобус? - it's pridet because the bus itself comes "on foot" not over some form of transport автобус приедет would mean that the bus comes riding on another form of transportation. By the way, there's no such form as приехет, it's приедет, but either way, it doesn't fit this sentence.

я иду в москву завтра, там куплю что-то для родителей - this means you are going to Moscow tomorrow on foot - if by transport, you would say "ya edu" покуплю doesn't exist, and куплю что-нибудь sounds weird - it's like "I'll buy whatever"

Кто-то мне сказал, что вы потеряли свой паспорт.
Да, потерял. Я надеюсь, что кто-нибудь его найдёт.

This is ok, except in Russian they say мне говорили or мне сказали, что (literally, "they told me that", but it means the same as "someone told me that").

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We searched for our friends all morning but couldn't find them.
Мы искали наших друзей всё утро, но не могли их найти.

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Мы искали наших друзей всё утро, но не смогли их найти.
Why perfective for мочь? Because the sentence focuses on the result of мочь action, which is unsuccessfull, rather than on the duration of the action.

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What time will our bus arrive?
I think at eight-twenty.
No, it will come at quarter to nine.
When it comes, we will tell you.
В котором часу приехет наш автобус?
Я думаю, в двадцать девятого.
Нет, он приехет без четверти девять.
Когда он приехет, мы вам скажим.

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во сколько придет наш автобус? - it's pridet because the bus itself comes "on foot" not over some form of transport автобус приедет would mean that the bus comes riding on another form of transportation. By the way, there's no such form as приехет, it's приедет, but either way, it doesn't fit this sentence.

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(В котором часу) Когда приедет наш автобус? - You can say приехать for a bus and although в котором часу is a fully correct phrase but I have a feeling that most people here would just use когда or во сколько for that.
Я думаю, в двадцать девятого. - It's better to say в двадцать минут девятого, although I bet people are more likely to say just this - в восемь двадцать
Нет, он приедет без четверти девять.
Когда он приедет, мы вам скажем.

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I'm going to Moscow tomorrow. I'll buy something there for my parents.
Я иду в Москву завтра. Я покуплю что-нибудь там для родителей.

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this means you are going to Moscow tomorrow on foot - if by transport, you would say "ya edu" покуплю doesn't exist, and куплю что-нибудь sounds weird - it's like "I'll buy whatever"

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Я иду в Москву завтра

As said, you use идти if you go on foot there. Which is rather weird in this context if you ask me, because it's usually quite a distance to cover if you want to go from one city to another. So I recommend using this:

Я еду/поеду в Москву завтра.

Я куплю что-нибудь там для родителей.

Что-нибудь is completely okay there, even more than that что-то sounds weird in this context. Also I'd say it like that: Я куплю там что-нибудь для родителей

Going back to что-то vs что-нибудь there. Что-нибудь means that you don't know what you're going to buy there yet, just anything that you will find to be worth buying. Что-то means that you vaguely know what you're going to buy but you don't know exactly what it will be yet. See? That's why что-то is really weird in this context.

One more thing - Я куплю кое-что там - That means that you know what exactly you will buy there but you don't want to name it right now.

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Кто-то мне сказал, что вы потеряли свой паспорт.
Да, потерял. Я надеюсь, что кто-нибудь его найдёт

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This is ok, except in Russian they say мне говорили or мне сказали, что (literally, "they told me that", but it means the same as "someone told me that").

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Here I second that suggestion

You did great. Good job

In conclusion, let's take a closer look at кто-то мне сказал. Here кто-то сказал means that someone specific told you that but you don't exactly remember who that person was.
Кое-кто сказал мне here it means that you exactly remember who told you that, like what the person's name, appearence etc were, but for some reason you don't specify who that was.
Мне сказали here it just implies the fact that you was told something, it doesn't focus on any person who did the telling unlike with кто-то мне сказал example.

Кто-нибудь мне сказал - it would be nonsense because кто-нибудь doesn't imply any specific person, just the whole variety of persons out there. But as you see the сказать action is complete now so it had to be someone specific to perform it. I hope this part is understandble.

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Originally Posted by iCake

I hope this part is understandble.

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Perfectly understandable. Thank you. I just noticed your quote at the bottom, "If you've spotted any mistakes in my English..." I just noticed an "a" missing in "understandable", though I suspect it's just a typographical error. Your English is damn near perfect. Congratulations. Where did you learn it?

John, thank you for your helpful response.

On the to next chapter...

Z