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"Онабра ла ту книжку из библиотеки."
Это означает ли "Она отдала ту книжку в библиотеку" т.е. "та книжка уже у ее нет" ?
A couple of reference books say she took the book from the library and returned it back to the library because of the imperfective verb.
But as far as I heard, sometimes yes and some times no, namely, she may still keep the book.
What is the correct answer?
I think it means she's returned it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
If you say "Она брала книжку в библиотеке" it means she took a book out the library and returned it. = "Она взяла книжку в библиотеке и потом ее вернула."
"Она взяла книжку в библиотеке" = she's taken the book from the library and still has it.
Она брала эту книжку в библиотеке.
Она взяла эту книжку в библиотеке.
"Из библиотеки" is wrong in this sentence.
Nope.
Я знаю, что она брала книгу в библиотеке, но не знаю, вернула или нет.
Она взяла книгу в библиотеке, прочитала и вернула.
Thank you for your correction!Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
It seems OK to say "Она взяла эту книжку из библиотеки."
If so, then why?
Почему? Вполне нормально. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Знчит, можно сказать "Она взяла книжку из библиотеки."?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocos
Однако, немного проверил по интернету, и мне кажется, что
также говорят "Она взяла книжку из библиотеки."
:?
Yes. But the most important difference between the verbs "брать" and "взять" is that "брать" answers to the question "что делать?" (Imperfective) and "взять" answers to the question "что сделать?" (Perfective). :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
Normal is not good. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocos
"Из библиотеки" is understandable and grammatically correct, but it's not a common way to say it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
So a deliberate change of preposition in this standard expression attracts attention and even can give an impression that the speaker hints at something (like he/she just "took" the book from the library without permission or something :)).
I'd advise just to stick with "брал/взял в библиотеке".
Thank you very much for your further comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocos
My summary is as follows:
Она брала книжку в библиотеке.
(Generally correct)
Она брала книжку из библиотеки.
(Some people think this is incorrect.)
Она взяла книжку в библиотеке.
(Generally correct)
Она взяла книжку из библиотеки.
(Generally correct according to my Internet checking.)
The above second sentence issue may be related to the aspect issue.
:?
I see. Thank you for your advice. I do not intend to steal.... :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
How about the following example?
Стивен Кинг.ру - Творчество Стивена Кинга - Темная Башня 5. Волки ...
Сразу бросается в глаза : Отец Каллаган взял книгу из библиотеки для того, чтобы взять дальше с собой во второй прыжок. И уж конечно, не для того, чтоб оставить ее для развлекательного чтения Эдди.
Yuki, your all sentences are correct. :)
This is a perfect example of a poor translation. Seriously. "Взял... чтобы взять".Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
No, no, no! It's WRONG (or at least it's a bad style). *wails in despair* :lol:Quote:
Она взяла книжку из библиотеки.
(Generally correct according to my Internet checking.)
Internet checking gives you some hits, but most of them use this expression in another context (or just not very good Russian).
For example, "Я взяла книгу из отцовской библиотеки" is correct. It means she took a book from her father's collection of books, not from a real library (an organisation, that lends books).
This one is ok too: "Я взял несколько книг из "Библиотеки программиста": the guy took some books from the Programmer library series (i.e. again a collection of books of some kind).
Talking about electronic libraries (collections of books, icons, smileys, etc.) people also often use "взять из библиотеки".
Come on, Cocos. They are grammatically correct and more or less ok, sure, but they are not equally good. Stop confusing poor learners. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocos
On the second thought... Who cares? :) The difference is rather subtle.
You can use both and you'll be understood.
Just keep in mind that "из библиотеки" focuses more on the fact that you physically take an item from the library (take it out from the building, for example), while "в библиотеке" is more about using library services (the fact that the book is not your own). Often these two meanings mingle together.
That's how I see it. :roll:
Well, I think, you are right and I am not! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Thank you very much for your helpful comment. I feel your comment is quite suitable. ( I spent some time in Russia and remember life to some extent.)Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
...subtle but this is a very interesting topic. I never thought that the preposition could be a very difficult topic.....
Sorry for my <Oil in Oil>. Just one more.
Тема «Как Вы познакомились с жанром фантастика/фэнтези»
-
Отправлено 03 мая 2007 г. 23:18цитировать. Варианта моего ответа здесь нет. Первый раз я взял книгу из библиотеки, и это была книга Уэллса "Человек-невидимка". Затем были другие книги Уэллса, Обручев, Толстой, Беляев и пошло-поехало.
You're welcome. :D
Yes, it can be tricky and really hard to explain. Moreover, there's often a disagreement among native speakers about a preferable variant, because every person has a unique manner of speech and probably imagine different contexts. :)Quote:
...subtle but this is a very interesting topic. I never thought that the preposition could be a very difficult topic.....
You'll see that "в/из" (and "взять в/из") can be used in similar phrases and in the certain context can mean roughly the same (the nuances differ, though).
Ex. "Я взял сок в холодильнике" ~ "Я взял сок из холодильника"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
One more question :oops:
Она брала книгу в библиотеке.
In case this sentence implies she returned the book to the library, she just read it in the library and did not take it out the library?
:?
Given that context, I would say that she did take it out of the library.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
Why do you ask this question? Is it that somebody told you that she might not, after all, take that book out of the library? If they did, they might have in mind different context.
It implies only that she used a library book. Nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
It doesn't say directly if she took it home or read it there, but we can make an assumption, based on statistical probability, that she took the book out of the library, and after some period of time she returned it. :)
Another possible example: :)
В детстве я часто брал книги в библиотеке, но ни одну не вернул.
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Она взала ручку в библиотеке.
Does this have a negative meaning ( stealing )?
No, it's neutral.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
Здравствуйте!
У меня также вопрос по этой категории:
Она его любила.
1.сейчас она его не любит.
2.мы не знаем любит ли она его и сейчас.
по-моему 2 прав. я прав?
Спасибо!
Well, if she loved him, how can we know if she loves him now! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paramita
Если она его любила, откуда мы знаем, любит ли она его и сейчас! :)
Basically, it's hard to define the time frame of a feeling. Perfective verbs (in the past) usually denote a concrete completed action. By definition, "feelings" are not concrete actions and they don't really have a concrete result. Thus imperfective verbs, are usually used, as they denote ongoining actions with unspecified time-frames.Quote:
Originally Posted by paramita
Она любила его. - She loved him.
And can you tell in English whether she still loves him or not???
Hence the phrase "used to."Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Russian is just overly complicated. I refuse to quit.