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Иосиф Виссарионович Джугашвили (Сталин) -
Есть человек - есть проблема, нет человека - нет проблемы.
There is a person - there is a problem, no person - no problem.
Победителей можно и нужно судить.
Winners are possible and it is necessary to try << I don't really get this one exactly :?:
Here isn't it 'try' in the sense of 'judge'? But I don't understand the meaning of the entire phrase either. Perhaps it's like 'winners can and must make judgements/must judge' but I don't understand that grammatically, if so, because 'winners' should be in the dative according to what I've been taught/remember.
I can tell you the grammarical part. The second sentence has this meaning:
Можно судить победителей, и нужно их судить.
Победители is the object of the verb in both instances. Not so sure of the meaning. Possibly translates as: Winners/victors can be judged, and they should be. I think судить means "judge" in the sense of "form an opinion of", maybe even "praise." Taking судить to mean trying victors in a courtroom does not make sense to me.
It is a periphrasis of a very well known phrase
"Победителей не судят"
It means "The winners are not to be judged", that is those who won judge all others themselves.
There is a Russian saying
Победителей не судят!
i.e. it doesn't matter in what way you have won. You have won and all objectors should shut up.
Oh, I see Propp explained that.
BTW... for the sake of historical truth... Stalin never said "нет человека - нет проблемы." It's a folklore.
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Propp
I thought it was unlikely - a kind of universal truth 'No people - No problems' - Good for learning the genitive case though :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by N
I got it from http://aphorism.ru/
Thanks all.
I’m afraid you didn't quite get the meaning which is actually more scaring. It means that if someone may cause problems the easiest solution is to do away with him. It's, for example, what bandits may say when they kill a witness. The meaning is probably more clear in this version I came across: "Death is the solution to all problems- no man, no problem."Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
Wow :o I see the quote quite a lot on the Internet, in the sense, and we would probably all agree, of people >>> problems!Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendy
I guess a less dramatic version, a modification of my original, might be: -
'If a person exists, there is a problem - no person, no problem'
"Death is the solution to all problems - no man, no problem". That's incredible Friendy - but very interesting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendy
майк, I'm also interpreting "нет человека -нет проблемы" like Friendy said.Quote:
Originally Posted by майк
JJ - I absolutely agree. I'm not trying to present a different meaning - I take the interpretation of you and Friendy without reservation. I'm just trying, in my head, to translate the Russian words of the phrase to get to the position you both describe - 'Death is the solution to all problems - no man, no problem'. It is in line with the true definition of an idiom, in that it 'cannot be fully understood from the individual meanings of its elements'.