Thread: Solzhenitsyn Translation

Hi! I'm struggling quite a lot with this translation! Especially how to write the dates. I know this is probably very poor quality but i'd be grateful for some advice on grammar and vocab.
Thanks
Александр Исаевич Солженицын

После коммунистические Российских, выпутываться на политическом имение и борьба для материальный богатство, превозносили по прочную славу как автор, например, <<Один день Ивана Денисовича>>, <<Раховый корпус>> (1968 тысяч девять сот шесть десять восемь году) и <<Архипелаг ГУЛАГ>> (три тома; из 1973-7 которые был первый раз что ужаса система Совета были в общественности. И хотя после перестройка российских находили его щекотливый, потому что он продолжение проповедовать о судьбы нации и его власть ослабевала после 1991 г, и интерес к нему приобретал на конечную жизнь.

It's hard to understand. Please give us an English version.

I really can't because then you'd be basically doing the work for me. Here is the general idea of what I have to translate

"Post communist Russians, caught in the turmoil of political change and the clambering for material wealth, hailed Solzhenitsyn's lasting fame as the author of such works as "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich...etc (three volumes;1973-7, which had for the first time spelt out in public the horrors of the soviet system. And although post-perestroika Russians found his continued moralising on the fate of the nation an embarrassment and his authority waned after 1991, interest in him picked up again towards the end of his life".

I know it's not very well written either which certainly hasn't helped me! But I really do need help, I'm so stressed bout this I could cry!

Originally Posted by Niamh

Hi! I'm struggling quite a lot with this translation! Especially how to write the dates. I know this is probably very poor quality but i'd be grateful for some advice on grammar and vocab.
Thanks
Александр Исаевич Солженицын

После коммунистические Российских, выпутываться на политическом имение и борьба для материальный богатство, превозносили по прочную славу как автор, например, <<Один день Ивана Денисовича>>, <<Раховый корпус>> (1968 тысяч девять сот шесть десять восемь году) и <<Архипелаг ГУЛАГ>> (три тома; из 1973-7 которые был первый раз что ужаса система Совета были в общественности. И хотя после перестройка российских находили его щекотливый, потому что он продолжение проповедовать о судьбы нации и его власть ослабевала после 1991 г, и интерес к нему приобретал на конечную жизнь.

Niamh, it's a bit confusing to know what to tell you because we don't see both the original text and the attempted translation. Please supply both in a clearly indicated fashion and a response will be easier for others.

Originally Posted by Niamh

Hi! I'm struggling quite a lot with this translation! Especially how to write the dates. I know this is probably very poor quality but i'd be grateful for some advice on grammar and vocab.
Thanks
Александр Исаевич Солженицын

После коммунистические Российских, выпутываться на политическом имение и борьба для материальный богатство, превозносили по прочную славу как автор, например, <<Один день Ивана Денисовича>>, <<Раховый корпус>> (1968 тысяч девять сот шесть десять восемь году) и <<Архипелаг ГУЛАГ>> (три тома; из 1973-7 которые был первый раз что ужаса система Совета были в общественности. И хотя после перестройка российских находили его щекотливый, потому что он продолжение проповедовать о судьбы нации и его власть ослабевала после 1991 г, и интерес к нему приобретал на конечную жизнь.

It sounds like a machine translation. It is really hard to give any specific advice on grammar and vocab except that you really should learn some grammar and some vocab. You see, if the translation was mostly correct with some errors in it, we could talk about errors. Or even if it was mostly incorrect, but made sense. But it is ALL wrong. Totally. Wrong words, wrong cases, wrong tenses, wrong everything. And it doesn't make sense. I wasn't able to figure out what you wanted to say until I read the English version. When you translate something, you should have a decent command of the target language (at the very least) which is more than I can say about your Russian. Sorry.

One specific suggestion that I can probably give you is to buy a good English-Russian dictionary: one that provides definitions of some sort rather than just listing possible translations. Your translation sounds as though you have just randomly picked words from a dictionary without bothering to check if they are correct or not.

I think you are being exceptionally harsh. I came here for help with the translation because I am well aware of my shortcomings. I did not request any of your "put-me-downs". Rather than telling me how wrong my vocab was, you could have suggested some correct or accurate words. Everybody struggles with learning a new language and certain exercises are particularily difficult.

"When you translate something, you should have a decent command of the target language (at the very least) which is more than I can say about your Russian. Sorry."

I am trying and I am learning and statements like this only serve to discourage.

that's pretty harsh. but still, keep trying. you only lose when you quit

Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo

that's pretty harsh. but still, keep trying. you only lose when you quit

Thank you.

Here's one of the possible (slightly altered) translations:

"После падения коммуниcтического режима русские, охваченные водоворотом политических перемен и погоней за материальным богатством, воздали должное Солженицыну как автору таких книг как "Один день Ивана Денисовича", "Раковый корпус" (196 и трехтомника "Архипелаг Гулаг" (1973-7, которые впервые открыто рассказали об ужасах советской системы. И хотя русские в послеперестроечной России сочли беспрестанное морализаторство Солженицына о судьбах нации неудобным, и его авторитет пошел на убыль после 1991 года, интерес к Солженицыну снова возрос под конец его жизни. "

I think you are being exceptionally harsh.

Sorry, harsh or not, but translationsnmru is right. The context was obvious (Solzhenitsyn, "post-communist Russia", etc.) but the the text itself was absolutely incomprehensible. We'd literally have to correct every single word.

It's not just a case or a few grammar mistakes, or wrong cases here and there. It seems that you don't see any difference between adjectives and nouns, you don't even try to make the words correspond in number, gender, etc. which are essencial concepts in Russian, and the words are often picked on random.

If it's not a one-time project for you and you do want to make a progress, try to pick up an easier text next time with shorter sentences. This one is way too hard for a beginner, because some things can't be translated word by word.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Here's one of the possible translations:

"После падения коммунизма русские, охваченные водоворотом политических перемен и погоней за материальным богатством, воздали должное Солженицыну как автору таких книг как "Один день Ивана Денисовича", "Раковый корпус" (196 и трехтомника "Архипелаг Гулаг" (1973-7, которые впервые открыто рассказали об ужасах советской системы. И хотя русские в послеперестроечной России находили беспрестанное морализаторство Солженицына о судьбах нации неудобным, и его авторитет пошел на убыль после 1991 года, интерес к Солженицыну снова возрос под конец его жизни. "

I think you are being exceptionally harsh.

Sorry, harsh or not, but translationsnmru is right. The context was obvious (Solzhenitsyn, "post-communist Russia", etc.) but the the text itself was absolutely incomprehensible. We'd literally have to correct every single word.

It's not just a case or a few grammar mistakes, or wrong cases here and there. It seems that you don't see any difference between adjectives and nouns, you don't even try to make the words correspond in number, gender, etc. which are essencial concepts in Russian, and the words are often picked on random.

If it's not a one-time project for you and you do want to make a progress, try to pick up an easier text next time with shorter sentences. This one is way too hard for a beginner, because some things can't be translated word by word.

Good luck!

Thanks for that! I know it's too hard for a beginner but it's actually homework that has been assigned to us. I have tried to make the words correspond, I really have spent [more time on it than it looks], but it has overwhelmed me.

Uh oh, in that case my translation probably differs too much from the original to satisfy your teacher.

I changed some phrases for a more natural narration. For example "post communist Russians, caught..." which is (literally) "посткоммунистические русские, охваченные..." turned into "After the fall of the communist regime Russians, caught...", because the original version was just AWFUL. You can't say in Russian "communist/capitalist Russians/people", it sounds forced. Native speakers don't talk like that, but that's what probably your teacher expects from you.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

PS. Your teacher is mean.

As an adult who has been reduced to tears by this whole exercise, I'm inclined to agree! And FYI, the original version comes from the Times Online! I couldn't even believe it when I saw it. Our last exercise was translating "How to drink like a Russian" and now this!!

Originally Posted by Niamh

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

PS. Your teacher is mean.

As an adult who has been reduced to tears by this whole exercise, I'm inclined to agree! And FYI, the original version comes from the Times Online! I couldn't even believe it when I saw it. Our last exercise was translating "How to drink like a Russian" and now this!!

Oops, I deleted this part, but I agree.

Originally Posted by Niamh

I think you are being exceptionally harsh <snip>

I am trying and I am learning and statements like this only serve to discourage.

Hmm. If you are REALLY trying to learn, do your homework. You came here with a translation that clearly demonstrates that you didn't even try to. Why should anyone want to help you if you are not trying yourself?
Let's take just one phrase: "Post communist Russians". Please tell me, what part of speech is "Russians"? Is it a noun or adjective? And what part of speech is "российских"? Why do you translate an English noun with a Russian adjective? That's one of most basic basics of Russian, or almost any language, for that matter.
Okay, let's assume you honestly don't have access to a decent dictionary, and you were lead to believe that "российские" is the proper Russian word for "Russians". Fine. Please tell me what is its function in the sentence? It is a subject, isn't it? Why then you use the genetive case? Weren't you taught that the subject of a sentence is ALWAYS in the nominative case? That's another basic thing you SHOULD know about Russian.

Originally Posted by Niamh

you could have suggested some correct or accurate words

I gave you a better suggestion. Get a good dictionary and actually use it. Or are you a kind of person that prefers to be given fish to eat rather then be given a fishing rod and taught to fish?
I also suggested that you should learn some grammar. Okay, let me rephrase it. Judging by your class assignments, you must be considered a fairly advanced student (unless your teacher is an idiot). However, your knowledge of grammar is virtually non-existent. If you are really interested in learning Russian (rather then just getting better grades), you really need to go back and learn the basics of grammar. The most elementary things. And do a lot of much easier excercises to master the rules. I am afraid there is no way around it if you want to learn Russian.
It may sound harsh, but you really NEED to realize that you are missing the basics. Until you realize it, you won't be able to progress.
Things that you need to review before anything else are probably (a) parts of speech, and (b) structure of Russian sentence. You do have your Russian grammar book, don't you?
On the other hand, if you just need the grades, go ahead and post the text you want translated. Because when you ask to check a "translation" like that, someone has to translate it for you from scratch anyway.

Originally Posted by translationsnmru

Originally Posted by Niamh

I think you are being exceptionally harsh <snip>

I am trying and I am learning and statements like this only serve to discourage.

Hmm. If you are REALLY trying to learn, do your homework. You came here with a translation that clearly demonstrates that you didn't even try to.

One can't translate *that* type of text into Russian without knowledge of grammar and reading at least some samples of set phrases usage in Russian related to subject. It may seem more appealing to teacher to
assign such kind of homework - not some set of lame 3-word SVO sentences in present simple, but pompous 5-line complex sentence on some 'actual' subject. But is it of any good?

I personally didn't find this exercise helpful in the slightest. Well, not that paragraph. The paragrag I'm doing now is slightly better [well, i think, but as shown my Russian is humiliatingly bad...]. We did a translation last week about Russian drinking habits, which used more colloquial Russian and was quite funny, that was even enjoyable to do!

Originally Posted by Niamh

I think you are being exceptionally harsh.

Niamh,

I'm an American who has studied Russian for quite a while, and I wanted to offer a little perspective on the criticism you received.

One major difference between Russia and some other countries is that, generally, Russians don't worry at all about protecting the ego of the writer or about saying things in a gentle way so as not to discourage the person being criticized. Instead they just speak their mind plainly. For Americans like me this is entirely shocking. For instance, a Russian college instructor is likely to say, "You are a really weak student. Study harder or you will fail." In the same context in the US an instructor will feel obliged to say something like, "You have an excellent brain, and if you put a little bit more time into studying, then you will do much better." I'm entirely serious. I said this to one of my students this morning.

I have no idea what country you are in, but allow me to suggest that when a Russian says something negative to you, you take a moment to step back and ask, "Is what this person said actually true?" If it's true, then don't worry about whether they sound harsh or not. If they have offered you advice, simply ask, "Is this advice good?" Don't worry about whether they care about you as individual human being or are being polite about your feelings of adequacy or shame. The Russians are simply responding to what you said or wrote.

After 20+ years of dealing with Russians I have decided I really like this aspect of Russian culture. It's straight-forward. It takes a lot less effort to interpret what they mean than what one might have to interpret in the American context.

There's my two cents. Accept it or reject it as you like. That "accept" senctence, by the way, is very American. I can't imagine a Russian bothering with it.

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

For instance, a Russian college instructor is likely to say, "You are a really weak student. Study harder or you will fail." In the same context in the US an instructor will feel obliged to say something like, "You have an excellent brain, and if you put a little bit more time into studying, then you will do much better."

Oh my Gooooooooooooood. Is it really so?
No, really, it's quite strange to me. And not to me only, I think...

Niamh, when I've seen your reaction to translationsnmru's post, I was a bit surprised and wanted to tell you that he didn't mean to offend you at all. See? It's obvious for Russians... He just told you the truth, and I'm sure there was "nothing personal" in it.

Actually, my comments on this topic should probably make a new thread in another forum.

How about this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16065

Оль, тебе наверно это будет интересно.