Thread: Летс ми спик фром май харррт

Do you have any clue to talk about the theme? Chinese themselves have problems with their language:

They USE it, it means it can be used.

Originally Posted by Marcus

They USE it, it means it can be used.

There are people who do queer things, why should do others?
In Asia now English is broadly adopted. In Singapore, Philippine it's becoming a native language.

Originally Posted by Marcus

They USE it, it means it can be used.

They use it -- because they learn to speak it from the cradle, and they learn to write it from kindergarten.

However, this does not guarantee that Chinese would be widely popular as a global SECOND language learned by non-Chinese on every continent, starting as teenagers, or in college.

The symbol "7" or"$" does not give you any clue to pronunciation, does it bother you?
Most people learn a foreign language as a written one. It won't be so difficult if caracters were everywhere. Then again, why don't languages with simpler spelling gain any advantage over English? So, one can learn a caracter and a pronunciation written in pinyin. When we learnt English we learnt the spelling and the transcription of every word. I can say that instead Mandarin has almost no inflection.
Finally, no one said that foreigners will know Chinese well, they will do it in the same degree as they do English today.
About English pronunciation, do you any language which is not Germanic but sounds similar to English?

Originally Posted by Marcus

The symbol "7" or"$" does not give you any clue to pronunciation, does it bother you?

No, but if I had to memorize 3,000+ different symbols in order to be sufficiently literate to read a daily newspaper, it might bother me a bit! Remember, Marcus, I'm certainly not saying that English spelling is logical or easy; I'm just saying that in general, alphabetic writing systems are easier to learn than a character-based system like Chinese or Japanese, because alphabets reduce the total number of different symbols that one must memorize.

Originally Posted by Marcus

So, one can learn a caracter and a pronunciation written in pinyin. When we learnt English we learnt the spelling and the transcription of every word. I can say that instead Mandarin has almost no inflection. Finally, no one said that foreigners will know Chinese well, they will do it in the same degree as they do English today.

Again, here you make some good points. In one of my comments above, I suggested the possibility that a Chinese/English "creole" might develop in the future as a successful international language. If this were to happen, one can speculate that such a creole would have the following features:

1. A core vocabulary (words like sun, moon, water, bread, man, woman, walk, make, sleep, one, two, three...) based mainly on Chinese.
2. But also a huge number of loanwords derived from "international English" -- that is, words from the English vocabulary that have already been borrowed into many other languages, for example, terms like computer, to televise, gay porn, genetics, cheeseburger -- in many cases replacing the standard Chinese words. (From Google, I find that the Chinese word for "computer" is diàn nǎo, but I would predict that if Chinese began to develop into a global lingua franca, foreigners learning Chinese would prefer to use a word that sounds more or less like "computer", because that's what they're accustomed to in their own languages.)
3. Practically no inflection, even of English loanwords.
4. Pinyin romanization as the primary writing system, with the use of Chinese characters being optional.

Yeah, that could work. Wouldn't exactly be Chinese, but it would be MOSTLY Chinese...

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I'm just saying that in general, alphabetic writing systems are easier to learn than a character-based system like Chinese or Japanese, because alphabets reduce the total number of different symbols that one must memorize.

Japanese language have an alphabet, actually two alphabets
They do use some Chinese characters but their language is more modern and flexible
And more pleasant to ears from my point of view

Actually, when we read, we try to recognize a word as an image like a character. So, the process of memorizing characters can be compared to memorizing words. There are also electronic dictionaries where you can always find the meaning of a character and there are programs which convert pinyin into characters.

I think maybe English is so strong for a lingua franca because of it's analytic/isolating character. Isolating language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Less inflection, easier to make comprehensible phrases regardless of inflection mistakes, the perfect source for pidgin. (Not suggesting English is pidgin.) I think this may have arisen from the origins of English itself, as a language between various linguistic groups in Britain mediating between Germanic, Romance, and Gaelic(?) languages. Just a guess.

Esperanto is much simpler than English. But it hasn't replaced English. The same will be with Chinese: it will simply replace English.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Esperanto is much simpler than English. But it hasn't replaced English. The same will be with Chinese: it will simply replace English.

Unlikely
English is spoken in many countries but Mandarin is only in few

Originally Posted by Marcus

Esperanto is much simpler than English. But it hasn't replaced English. The same will be with Chinese: it will simply replace English.

I'm pretty sure this won't happen.

In fact, I'm so sure, how about this: if it DOES happen, I'll buy you a Coke.

Look: As I understand it, there was a long time when old Russia was entranced by France, and were taking steps to become more European under Peter the Great.. Well, nobles even learned a lot of French, right? Even the books say they were embarassed to speak Russian and preferred to speak French to save "face" during that time. Well, to ask all of Russia to BECOME French-speaking was simply too much for a country of people, many of whom LIKED their native language. It's the same with English and us in the West. Anything can happen, but we'll keep our native language, because we like it. And no amount of foreign influx is going to change THAT - though we happily let a lot of things change as people come here.

I'm pretty confident as a student of history that I can stand in the shadow of the distant future and say that we in the US will continue speaking English as a native tongue.

Unlikely
English is spoken in many countries but Mandarin is only in few

"only" in China. It doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Marcus

"only" in China.

That's incorrect
It's officially spoken in Singapore and Taiwan
And unofficially in other places

That's incorrect
It's officially spoken in Singapore and Taiwan
And unofficially in other places

Я знаю. Просто Китай такая огромная страна, что говорить про него "только" неправильно.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Я знаю. Просто Китай такая огромная страна, что говорить про него "только" неправильно.

only in few
означает только в нескольких (странах)

No, of course English will be spoken where it is spoken, but it won't the international language number one, as it is now. This place will be taken by Chinese.