Did you find something interesting or something what you like in Russian phonology, lexics, grammar?
Did you find something interesting or something what you like in Russian phonology, lexics, grammar?
That might be something you would even like to see in your own language, some convenient way of expressing of thoughts.
You probably meant this question to be answered by foreigners, but still I venture to express my opinion.
The thing I like most about Russian is flexible word order. Such flexibility and freedom give many opportunities for expression, choice and variety.
Also I think Russian is an emotional laguage. I like all these numerous suffixes: -ик, -чик, -ка, -ище at alias.
And you, Marcus, I suppose, there is something you like about Russian, isn't it.
I've got to start by saying that I am not a linguist and am not extremely interested in the details of linguistics.
However, without doubt the cyrillic alphabet would make writing Swedish a lot easier. It would make the words a lot shorter (the words are pretty long due to complicated spelling). It would also make the spelling more consistent.
I really like the sound of Russian but I think Russian grammar is too complicated and it is not something I would want for my own language.
Russian is simply cool because it is the largest language on the European country, yet not that common as second language in the EU. It is a European language, yet very different from the "regular" languages - Germanic and Latin language families. The words sound interesting.
I respect that Russians are sticking to their own language instead falling in love with English like some countries in Northern Europe have done, Netherlands, Scandinavia and others. I think it's valuable for a country to be in touch and in tune with its own culture and language helps with that.
This said, I understand that there has been an almost completely un-monitored "invasion" of English into Russian over the last couple of decades - IT, media and business words.
I put my Russian studies on hold for a while but I will pick it up again in the new Year.
!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
.An On-line Russian Reference Grammar
quote from Dr. Beard: "...they want their language to remain the simplest language in the world, the Russians decided...".
I'm not a linguist either. Whenever I have trouble (the usual situation), I remember Dr. Beard, and say to myself "Russian is the simplest language in the world!"
Russian is very interesting to me, the more I learn, the more interested I am to become more fluent.
I like the insane bits. ;) Especially counting with adjectives and nouns! And it's fun when I try to explain to Russian speakers learning German that yes, counting can be very simple indeed. ;)
Some of the number usages were clear to me from the start, they are a linguistic example of a mod function. It existed in Russian, before Euler and Gauss thought of mod functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
Modular arithmetic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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In many languages plural is not used with numerals, so German is not the easiest language in this respect.Quote:
And it's fun when I try to explain to Russian speakers learning German that yes, counting can be very simple indeed.
I don't think there is much flexibility and freedom in Russian. There is a lot of conventionality in forming words and sentences. You can't form sometimes something because you just can't :) Like you say 'Мы победим' but you can't say the same in singular 'Я победю/побежду'. Why? I have no clue. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kib
In English there is just few addings like 'ed, ing', and apart some exceptions, there is not much hesitation to put them.
I don't think it's by chance that some of the best pieces of litterature in existence were written in Russian. I think the structure and something in the nature of Russian brings out the best in writers - that it inspires their style. It's a real shame that I am not yet able to appreciate that myself, but I know it's there. This is definitely a language with a soul. Since I am not a linguist I think I'll leave it there!
Well, for example, I like the position of words не, только, даже in Russian more than not, only, even in English. In English they are placed before the verb but refer to any word in the sentence. Like: I don't think she will come - Я думаю, что она не придёт. "I only took a look at the garden". Does it mean that I didn't do anything else except for looking at the garden or that I didn't look anywhere else except for the garden?
Multiple negation is however annoying in Russian.
Что ты не понимаешь?
Ничего.
Ничего не понимаешь?
Adverbial phrases are one of the interesting topics in Russian. Is this a linguistic point? This is a major difference from English, yes?Quote:
I don't think there is much flexibility and freedom in Russian. There is a lot of conventionality in forming words and sentences. You can't form sometimes something because you just can't :) Like you say 'Мы победим' but you can't say the same in singular 'Я победю/побежду'. Why? I have no clue. :)
In English there is just few addings like 'ed, ing', and apart some exceptions, there is not much hesitation to put them.
Can't say 'Я победю/побежду' (??), but perhaps can say ' Это победно мне!' This phrase might not be ok in Russian, I don't know. But the idea of using adverbial phrases is common in Russian, adds a lot of flexibility to ways of saying things.
Да.Quote:
Is this a linguistic point?
Так сказать нельзя.Quote:
' Это победно мне!'
В словаре устаревших слов: Значение слова Победный
Не знаю, почему оно попало в такой словарь. Там ещё полно слов, которые они почему-то считают устарелыми.
Победно тоже нормальное слово, только его нужно правильно употреблять.
Социализм победно шагает по планете!
Ага! Ясно.
Век живи, век учись! I didn't know that победить can't be used in the first-person singular. Может быть, такое табу развилось чтобы извежать хвастовства и не "сглазить"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Romik
P.S. Also, what does one say in place of the non-existent я победю/побежду? Does я достигну победу! sound okay?
No, I would rather say "я одержу победу", though a more convenient way is to say "я выиграю".Quote:
Originally Posted by Throbert McGee
Even though we don't use it first person singular we can substitute it with the first person plural "мы победим" having in mind that it refers to the first person singular.
It's not only with that word:Quote:
Originally Posted by Throbert McGee
You can say:Quote:
Как вы поступите, если вам придётся поставить в форме 1-го лица единственного числа глагол победить? А глагол чудить? Вы, очевидно, чувствуете, что в первом случае не подходит ни «побежу», ни «побежду», ни «победю», также как во втором не подходит ни «чужу», ни «чудю».
Дело в том, что некоторые глаголы ограничены в образовании или употреблении личных форм (их поэтому называют недостаточными глаголами). Во-первых, это глаголы, которые обозначают процессы, совершающиеся в животном или растительном мире, в неживой природе и не присущие человеку: ржаветь, сквозить, телиться, течь и др. Такие глаголы не употребляются в формах 1-го и 2-го лица единственного и множественного числа (нельзя ведь сказать: «я теку» или «мы ржавеем»).
Во-вторых, это глаголы, которые не образуют формы 1-го лица единственного числа настоящего или будущего простого времени по фонетическим причинам: такие глаголы, как победить, чудить, убедить, очутиться, ощутить и некоторые другие, образовали бы названную форму с непривычными для нашего слуха сочетаниями звуков («убежу», «убежду», «убедю», «очучусь», «ощущу» и т. п.). Редко употребляется форма «прегражу» (от преградить). А глаголы бузить, дерзить, тузить не образуют теоретически возможных форм «бужу», «держу», «тужу», потому что «место уже занято»: эти слова уже существуют, но как формы часто употребляющихся глаголов будить, держать, тужить. Как же всё-таки поступать, если нужно дать понять, что я их «убедю» и «победю»? Выход заключается в использовании описательных оборотов: и не думаю чудить, сумею победить, хочу убедить, могу очутиться, попытаюсь ощутить и т.п.
Я одержу победу.
Я достигну победы.
But again a strange thing - in these two similar phrases the last word has different forms.
The reason of it I think that the Russian grammar has been written by dumbasses.
The phonetic reasons with those words seems nonsense. I don't find much problems for myself to say those words it that ways.
Oh, that's cool)
Я одержу победу. Я выиграю битву. Я выиграю сражение. - all that can be used referring to war and historic events.
Romik, where is that quote on the incomplete verbs from? :)
I googled it, it's Rosenthal.Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
He is non-Russian btw.
Why?! Я теку , Мы ржавеем .Quote:
Во-первых, это глаголы, которые обозначают процессы, совершающиеся в животном или растительном мире, в неживой природе и не присущие человеку: ржаветь, сквозить, телиться, течь и др. Такие глаголы не употребляются в формах 1-го и 2-го лица единственного и множественного числа (нельзя ведь сказать: «я теку» или «мы ржавеем»).
Чуду-юду я и так победю :-P
Russian is synthetic, (word building and inflection/cases?) Synthetic language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
English is rather less synthetic, more analytic:Isolating language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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Caution must be used in reading these articles, I believe. A language that occasionally shows some synthetic characteristics, does not mean language is very synthetic. This applies to Romance languages for examples, that seem to be more analytic and less synthetic than is implied.
sure thingQuote:
Originally Posted by Romik
can you add 'ed' to these verbs in English
put
catch
have
build
be
burn
fall
find
freeze
go
pay
buy
forget
make
...
...
The list goes on up to 700 words
You can probably build the whole new language based just on these "some exceptions"
English would be much easier w/o exceptional rules for these verbs
'Burned' is ok. When native speakers hear these kinds of things 'builded, forgetted, cutted,'etc it doesn't impair comprehension. Children (and non-native speakers) often use these kinds of constructions, everyone almost always knows what they mean. And so yes, they are not 'legit' but they don't interfere with basic communication.
if you say "я победю" every Russian can understand you and as you say "yes, they are not 'legit' but they don't interfere with basic communication."Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
It is good to hear this! I've been learning about personal and impersonal verb usage, and so it seems one can say 'Я успею...' 'Я успел....' and 'Мне удалось...' But can't say something like 'Я удамся...' And so maybe the incorrect usage of impersonal verb, using as a personal form might be understood too. This seems like this could be a typical mistake for people learning Russian.