violence in moscow

Привет.

Hello everyone. I'm Kevin, a mere a first year Russian student in Olympia Washington. I'll be doing some more Russian work this summer in Indiana, and then heading to Moscow come September. I have been worried lateley about violence, however. I have read many articles explaining the increasing Neo-Nazi problem in Moscow. Over half of the world's Neo-Nazis are in Russia! Many people of African or Asian appearance have been targeted in random attacks, sometimes proving lethal. A study abroad program my friend participated in a few years ago said there was a Mexican American student in her group. She said he would often recieve catcalls and sometimes outright threats in public, as many people mistook him for a Chechen.

Of course I can't forget that many places in America have similar issues with racism, but here you can usually count on not being physically assaulted for racial reasons.

I guess what I am asking is how do people keep themselves safe? What are behaviors that would insight this kind of violence? I am myself white, but still an America. Are there areas of Moscow that are worse than other? Like, a "no-go" zone? I will be staying near остановка метро "Выхино". Is there anything specific about this area I should know?

Hi, Kevin.
Welcome!
You can also ask americans living in Moscow: http://www.expat.ru/forum/index.php
Успешной учёбы!

its just like any city.

Gangs dont keep people from going to hollywood.

Just mind your business and everything will be great.

Bleehhh, I tried to read some threads on that forum. There was a three-page long argument on the word "негр" from some moron who was appaled "by Russians' regular use of the 'n-word.'" Man, am I glad for MasterRussian. And kudos to MA for the spelling rule! It should be strictly enforced, lest we become like expat.ru, a real "ignorant's paradise"... :D

BTW, noticed bad manners made a couple guest appearances over there. Including some posts on the very interesting subject of "what kind of face can be described as Russian."

But about your question, no clue. I'm Asian and I've never been to Moscow, though I'd like to go someday. I read some pretty frightening stories on that forum, but I know some Black and Asian people who went there and didn't have any problems. I'd like to blow it off and say the usual "don't go out at night, always go with someone", but I've never been to that city and I don't know of any "foreign-foreign" person here who has. At any rate, being of European appearance, you should have less trouble than, say, students from Kenya.

appalled :wink:

finger-fehler, I'm sure :)

If you're asain just go to kazakhstan where we beat up the whities.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

its just like any city.

Gangs dont keep people from going to hollywood.

Just mind your business and everything will be great.

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Well, I wouldn't know, I've never been to LA. In Chicago, though, they sure keep people from going to about half of the city. Also, I'm pretty sure the Neo-Nazi violence I was mentioning wasn't provoked by the victims. :wink:

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She said he would often recieve catcalls and sometimes outright threats in public, as many people mistook him for a Chechen.

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Chechens do not receive catcalls. They swagger about with their heads high, so your friend is basically lying.

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Originally Posted by VendingMachine

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She said he would often recieve catcalls and sometimes outright threats in public, as many people mistook him for a Chechen.

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Chechens do not receive catcalls. They swagger about with their heads high, so your friend is basically lying.

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I doubt that would happen, because in Moscow there are loads and laods of people who are "southern looking", so these people doing the catcalls would have a very busy day.

I finally found this site again. An Asian guy's experience travelling across Russia complete with photographs.
Make sure you click on his "photo journal" and then click "on view as a guest"
http://www.geocities.com/wwu777us/

WOW. Another asain guy named Winston! There was one in my 10th grade english class and even the teacher made fun of him for having such an awkward name!

WWOW is this a common phenominiminon?

DDT: That guy's kind of creepy, if you ask me. He went to Russia for the sole intention of getting girls? :?

Dogboy: Chinese-American kids born in the US are always given some kind of dorky English name, like Stephen, or Winston. Good thing I'm technically not an ABC, wouldn't want to be rubbing shoulders with those n00b0rts. ;)

PS: Am I the only one who has an urge to pronunce the name "Stephen" as "Steffen"?

This wanna be actor is 100% WEIRD. I really enjoyed his bagging on America followed by a request for cash to help him recover from getting beat up in Russia :lol:

As for violence in Moscow, I haven't seen it. I also never see skinheads or neo-nazis. I've NEVER heard catcalls (unlike America where walking past a construction site is seriously unpleasant)and never seen anyone of dark skin color or nonwhite ethnicity get harrased.

Hmm, he was probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Still, I am interested to know if there are specific areas that are generally high crime? I'm not really worried much about downtown, but more in the...oh how do you say...хрущобы?

Well I figure that for a country that is supposedly full of neo-nazis, that he fared not too bad for a guy that was constantly on the move trying to pick-up the local girls. If Russia was as bad as the original poster thinks it is then Winston was lucky to come back alive.

Geoduck

хрущобы это тип дома, а не место
означает "хрущевские пятиэтажные дома сносимых или несносимых серий"
есть по москве _везде_

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Originally Posted by Pravit

DDT: That guy's kind of creepy, if you ask me. He went to Russia for the sole intention of getting girls? :?

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Actually it is not so creepy. He went to Russian not to just get girls. He went there hoping to find a wife to settle down with and raise a family. And when it comes to Russian or Eastern European women, I don't blame him.

ahhhhh, so the truth of why DDT really comes to MR comes out! :lol:

I am glad this guy asked this question about Moscow, because I was wondering the same thing. I am a white female, and could probably pass for Russian once my Russian gets good enough, but I have been warned against studying abroad in Moscow (or anywhere in Russia for that matter) by my boyfriend. However, I have a russian friend who lives in Moscow that has said I (white, American female) should be safe to come there. He said that usually it is only the Asian or Black looking people who are targeted against.

May I give a little advice to those who haven't travelled much (or perhaps have and just haven't twigged this yet)?
Ignore people, newspapers and so on that tell you "city X" or "country Y" "is dangerous".
It's cobblers. Just go if you want to.

And btw, I didn't check the link because I can't view geocities here, but is that the guy called "Winston"?

(No offense to you, Geoduck. I'm commenting on your source).

The claim that "half the world's neo-nazi's are in Russia" sounds preposterous to me. I know old USSR had a huge population. So, USSR could have possibly had that statistic. But now, Russia just doesn't have the population to convince me of this claim being remotely credible. Perhaps there is some semantic manipulation going on. For example, there are racists in my country, but they may not wear a swastika. Does that disqualify them as a neo-nazi? I guess it does, but it means nothing. There are more Black Panthers (or were) in USA than anywhere else, but that never meant it was the most dangerous country for a white person to go to. The term Nazi, including the neo variety, is idolized too much. In a country like Sweden, you may see more people freely allowed to don swastikas in public, when American racists would have to hide theirs. But it doesn't mean the Swedish racist is more dangerous. They may simply be pathetic juviniles ranting and raving. The dangerous ones are the ones who don't get things off their chests everyday. The secret racists are the ones I'd be concerned about, moreso than just a bunch of hooligans pretending to be intense by wearing a swastika and shouting shock-tactic sloganism. Half these apparent neo nazi's will probably grow out of it once their puberty and identity issues disipate. Then they'll be dull and drab work-a-day middle-aged guys who talk to the black guys at work, just like everyone else does.
This doesn't mean that none of these people are actual neo nazi's. Of course the occasional person will be the real thing. I'm not suggesting complacency on the issue. Of course you'll want to know what you're travelling into. But the world too easily gets blinded by the lights, in regard to Hitler symbolism.

Yes waxwing, his name is Winston. And russkayalove I receive enough attention from the local Russian girls who live near me that I don't need to visit MR or even Russia. I am not the settling down sort of guy anyway......hmm, I hear North Carolina is nice.

Statistics...

Half the neonazis in the world may well be in Russia, you may even have twice or three times the chance of being attacked there by one that anywhere else.

But twice or three times a ridiculously small chance is still a pretty bloody unlikely event.

Like buying two lottery tickets really. Sure, you have twice as much chance of winning, but you still aren't going to.

There have been some instances where I felt unsafe in Russia (St. Petersburg), and there have been reports about racially motivated crimes (violent and bloody skinhead raids on markets, where a large % of the people is usually from the Caucasus region and the stabbing to death of a 6-year old Tadzjik girl in Piter, for example), but for the most part any sound advice you would give someone who is planning on visiting New York or London, will also be applicable to Russia. Especially when you are white, getting robbed will be your biggest worry. Don't let your Canon-camera dangle playfully around your wrist and you should be fine. Having half a brain will go a long way in keeping you safe, even in Nazi Russia... :roll:

The end.

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

Привет.
Hello everyone. I'm Kevin, a mere a first year Russian student in Olympia Washington. I'll be doing some more Russian work this summer in Indiana, and then heading to Moscow come September.

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You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

I have been worried lateley about violence, however. I have read many articles explaining the increasing Neo-Nazi problem in Moscow.

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This problem exists, but it's seriously exaggerated by media.
Although I live in Moscow for all my life, I NEVER seen real neo-nazi (I mean, in flesh, not on TV screen :) )

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

Over half of the world's Neo-Nazis are in Russia!

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What an interesting statement.
First, I wonder who and how managed to count all neo-nazis in the world. :)

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

A study abroad program my friend participated in a few years ago said there was a Mexican American student in her group. She said he would often recieve catcalls and sometimes outright threats in public, as many people mistook him for a Chechen.

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Mistaking latino-american and north-caucasian seems to be extremelly silly. Totally different racial types.

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

I guess what I am asking is how do people keep themselves safe?

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Avoid unlit streets in night -- and you will be 99%-safe. :)

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

I am myself white, but still an America. Are there areas of Moscow that are worse than other? Like, a "no-go" zone?

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Again, this question is too general.
Ofcourse, Tverskaya ulitsa in bright day is *much* safer place than outskirts of Kapotnya industrial zone in midnight. ;)
But even this depends.

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Originally Posted by Geoduck

I will be staying near остановка метро "Выхино". Is there anything specific about this area I should know?

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The only good thing about this location I can say: it's probably extremely cheap. :)
Alas, all other points aren't such good. This region, like almost entire YuVAO (Southeast Administrative District) is poor, mostly industrial and not very good ecologically.
And the overall traffic, and especially hordes of people running through metro "Vykhino" in morning/evening peak hours probably can trample flat all neo-nazis in the world even without noticing it. ;)

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even in Nazi Russia...

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Wash your mouth out with soap, Yozh!

Thanks Scorpio, that was very helpful.

About the claim about half the worlds Neo-Nazis being in Russia - it was made by Pravda, which as far as I can tell, would be more likely to exaggerate to the low side of that figure. I can still believe that the situation is exaggerated by the media in general, though. We have many issues in America that get blown out of proportion (don't get me started on the War on Terror).

I'm not sure if I can see the State's interest in inflating Neo-Nazism as a problem. Such stories are always good at distracting people from other issues, but in this case I think it actually directs people's attentetion towards issues that the Kremlin would rather people not think of sympathetically - namely the plight of people in the Caucasus. Other action by Putin, his language in response to Beslan (calling them international terrorists and such), treated the attack as a military, rather than social problem. Creating sympathy towards Chechens, by portraying racial minorities as victims to Russian hate crimes, would seem to undermine the state's interest keeping people in support of continued hostile action towards Chechnya.

Some posters seem to think it should be obvious for me to know the problem isn't major, but please remember that it is difficult to know the truth about an issue if you have never been there. I didn't mean to seem focused on Neo-Nazism as if I'm engaged in some kind of moral crusade, I just was concerned about it's manifestation as violence.

I guess in an ironic way, Neo-Nazism is just another example of the freedom of the broad ideological spectrum that now exists in Russia.

I'm glad that in ЮВАО I will be forced to see the problems of Russia today along with the good. I'm really going there to learn about the country and people, not just see touristy landmarks.

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Originally Posted by DDT

I finally found this site again. An Asian guy's experience travelling across Russia complete with photographs.
Make sure you click on his "photo journal" and then click "on view as a guest"
http://www.geocities.com/wwu777us/

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A quote from the asian guy who wrote that

Propaganda vs. Real Life in America
http://www.geocities.com/wwu777us/Propa ... merica.htm

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Teenagers could go to the hedgerows or parks and make love in the bushes. I , BTW, started drinking alcohol at age 12.

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Man, just as if THAT would not happen here...

He has some points, but hey he is exagerating a bit. As if in Europe we don't have to worry about repaying the mortgage for our house. Bullshit. I can find you a ton more.

He is the guy doing propaganda

Surprisingly enough, I don't think anything written on Winston's site has to do with the subject of this thread. Or that anyone on this forum cares about what's on Winston's site, besides you.

BTW, nice post, Scorpio.

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Originally Posted by VendingMachine

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even in Nazi Russia...

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Wash your mouth out with soap, Yozh!

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Notice the :roll:, VM!

:roll:

I "care" about Winston. I think I still have a file on my computer somewhere that's called "Winston_arse.txt"
He posted virtually a whole book's worth of drivel on an English teaching website, pontificating about how much greater life is in Russia because he thinks he can get laid there or because he thinks people don't pay mortgages or something.

->Oh, just noticed Mordan wrote that too. Yep, that's the long and the short of it.

Yep, but everyone already knows he's a wacko. And it really has nothing to do with the thread. Of course, bashing easy targets is always fun...

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Originally Posted by Pravit

Surprisingly enough, I don't think anything written on Winston's site has to do with the subject of this thread. Or that anyone on this forum cares about what's on Winston's site, besides you.

BTW, nice post, Scorpio.

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LOl yea right. :) Just could not help writing a comment for the people who might have read the link provided by DDT

heh

I think Winston has experienced violence in Russia because where ever he goes people just can't resist the urge to beat him up. :wink:
And I keep searching for those Neo-nazis in Moscow but I can't seem to find them. :roll: Maybe they hibernate for the winter just like those bears that are usually in the streets.

I think that you are all missing the point of the post about Winston. The point is that he did not get treated any worse in Russia than anywhere else, even Winston himself says this.